Writing Elaine

[Kroms]

Edit: Ahhh, I had a huuuuuge post written out here that I deleted by accident. I'll try to summarize and be brief.

The gist of it was how would you improve on Elaine being more likeable? To me, she:

1. obviously needs to snap less at Guybrush and consequently us, the players;
2. she needs to sound more like a sweetheart or a loving wife than my best friend's mum.

I think a total re-do of the character model would help, as she looked so...charming and pretty in the first and third games, whereas now she's more like a middle-aged woman - she seems 20 years older than Guybrush. And very, uh, British, as she says phrases like "Buckets" when Guybrush asks if she's missed him. Which is fine, but phrases like "Buckets" make her sound more like she's from Keeping Up Appearances than Monkey Island.

Elaine works best when she has the upper hand on everything - the better the comeback she has against Threepwood's enemies, the cooler she is. Obviously, after Trial and Execution, her character has developed enough that she doesn't trust herself that much anymore. Which I think means she'll be more open, which means she'll hopefully be more likeable...

I'm not suggesting that her being older is unappealing by default. I'm just saying that Elaine works best when she's more of a sweetheart and less of an angry mum. And her character model, unfortunately, reflects more of the latter than the former.

Just to elaborate, to me, this is the appealing Elaine:




Exotic and mysterious, in a way, and Alexandra Boyd's voice, which was softer and smoother in CMI than Tales, added to it. It's much harder to do that with this Elaine, who also looks like she has extra bones in her cheeks:



I hope it's not an unreasonable request to re-do her character model and make her more likeable. I love Elaine, when she's working; Guybrush loves Elaine by default. It'd be a shame to see her become a fifth wheel.

Edit: I don't mean she should be pretty and smart, aka some sort of man's woman. I'm not like that. I'm just saying that I enjoy my girlfriend's company when she's being nice. I take the good with the bad, but it wears on me if it's 80% bad and 20% good.

[Teeth]

They probably put in a lot of British phrases because 1. They really did their research when they made Wallace and Gromit and 2. It's nice to see a British character in an American-produced series actually sounding like a British person. It drives me mad to hear British characters saying "Candy." "Dollars." "Band-Aid." "Jerk." and "Fanny." to mean ass instead of vagina.

I'd also say that Elaine definitely IS a lot softer in Tales of Monkey Island. She beats poor Guybrush constantly in Escape, and in Curse the thing she punches him for isn't his fault in the slightest. In Tales she's never physically abusive towards Guybrush, even when she's poxed with the personality of his worst enemy. Also in Escape, when she wants Guybrush to do something she bosses him into it, while in Tales she appeals to him by being cute and feminine.

[Fealiks]

Originally Posted by Kroms

Edit: Ahhh, I had a huuuuuge post written out here that I deleted by accident. I'll try to summarize and be brief.

The gist of it was how would you improve on Elaine being more likeable? To me, she:

1. obviously needs to snap less at Guybrush and consequently us, the players;
2. she needs to sound more like a sweetheart or a loving wife than my best friend's mum.

I think a total re-do of the character model would help, as she looked so...charming and pretty in the first and third games, whereas now she's more like a middle-aged woman - she seems 20 years older than Guybrush. And very, uh, British, as she says phrases like "Buckets" when Guybrush asks if she's missed him. Which is fine, but phrases like "Buckets" make her sound more like she's from Keeping Up Appearances than Monkey Island.

Elaine works best when she has the upper hand on everything - the better the comeback she has against Threepwood's enemies, the cooler she is. Obviously, after Trial and Execution, her character has developed enough that she doesn't trust herself that much anymore. Which I think means she'll be more open, which means she'll hopefully be more likeable...

I'm not suggesting that her being older is unappealing by default. I'm just saying that Elaine works best when she's more of a sweetheart and less of an angry mum. And her character model, unfortunately, reflects more of the latter than the former.

Just to elaborate, to me, this is the appealing Elaine:




Exotic and mysterious, in a way, and Alexandra Boyd's voice, which was softer and smoother in CMI than Tales, added to it. It's much harder to do that with this Elaine, who also looks like she has extra bones in her cheeks:



I hope it's not an unreasonable request to re-do her character model and make her more likeable. I love Elaine, when she's working; Guybrush loves Elaine by default. It'd be a shame to see her become a fifth wheel.

I completely agree.

Originally Posted by Teeth

They probably put in a lot of British phrases because 1. They really did their research when they made Wallace and Gromit and 2. It's nice to see a British character in an American-produced series actually sounding like a British person. It drives me mad to hear British characters saying "Candy." "Dollars." "Band-Aid." "Jerk." and "Fanny." to mean ass instead of vagina.

No offence to whoever wrote the line in question, but I've lived in England for my entire life and I've never heard anyone say "buckets". It didn't seem British to me - it seemed fake-British and really unnatural.

Originally Posted by Teeth

I'd also say that Elaine definitely IS a lot softer in Tales of Monkey Island. She beats poor Guybrush constantly in Escape, and in Curse the thing she punches him for isn't his fault in the slightest. In Tales she's never physically abusive towards Guybrush, even when she's poxed with the personality of his worst enemy.

It doesn't matter that she wasn't physically abusive; the way she behaved was pretty abrasive in general. You don't need to be violent to achieve that.

Originally Posted by Teeth

Also in Escape, when she wants Guybrush to do something she bosses him into it, while in Tales she appeals to him by being cute and feminine.

She was being overtly insincere, though, which just made her come across as more bitchy/bossy.

[Kroms]

Yeah, playing cute doesn't really work for her either. She's not the pretty girl next door you take on dates anymore.

Man, Elaine must be a tough character to write. She's witty, intelligent and swashbuckling, yet shy. Up until now, she hasn't been particularly introverted...

I mean, she's more like a swashbuckling Juliet than anything. On the one hand, she doesn't need to say "Ah harrrr, I be a pirate!" (like in Spinner Cay) because she's enchanting and cool enough, say in the first game, to be able to get away with just being normal. She doesn't need to shout. She no longer has the self-confidence to do it. To Guybrush, she's the most beautiful woman in the world, right? She was certainly that in SMI. Why not re-kindle that feeling?

On the other hand, he can get away from her prison hold, dress up some monkeys in a bridal dress and just make fun of her tormentor. She's intelligent and witty.

But she is not a shouting, angry mum...And I really think a re-design of the character model would help with getting rid of that image.

[Teeth]

Speaking as somebody who has a perpetually shouting, angry mum, who incidentally is actually named Elaine, I can honestly say that the Elaine of Monkey Island is definitely a much more pleasant individual than the Elaine I have to live with. :P

[Irishmile]

I do not want to sound mean or anything... but Alexandra Boyd's voice has changed and she kind of now sounds too old to be Elaine.... especially when she is sounding "evil" or yelling....

Obviously I am not suggesting she be replaced but its just something I noticed.

[Kroms]

Yeah, sort of. I like her, though. Maybe sound engineering can make her sound softer? If you look at videos of CMI, for example when Guybrush emerges from LeChuck's ship, she has a wonderfully soft voice that captures the character rather well.

Is that kind of thing even possible?

[Fealiks]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

I do not want to sound mean or anything... but Alexandra Boyd's voice has changed and she kind of now sounds too old to be Elaine.... especially when she is sounding "evil" or yelling....

Obviously I am not suggesting she be replaced but its just something I noticed.

I almost feel bad saying this, but I really disliked her performance in Tales.

[Kroms]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

I almost feel bad saying this, but I really disliked her performance in Tales.

I preferred her 'soft' voice to her 'angry' one myself. She's great when she says "I love you", but when she says, "(sigh) Right then" or something, I dislike it. And phrases like "You hussey!" to Morgan only make her sound older, though that's more of a writing thing.

[Fealiks]

Originally Posted by Kroms

I preferred her 'soft' voice to her 'angry' one myself. She's great when she says "I love you", but when she says, "(sigh) Right then" or something, I dislike it. And phrases like "You hussey!" to Morgan only make her sound older, though that's more of a writing thing.

There were a lot of bits like "hussey" and "buckets" that seemed like 1960s/70s British slang rather than contemporary British slang that were really jarring, imo.

I did love her voice in CMI, and it was the best one yet, for me. I just think that Alexandra Boyd's acting in Tales wasn't her best. There were some parts where the delivery sounded a bit over-the-top, for me. Like the line in the opening scene where she says "You don't spend several years at the side of Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate, without picking up a few tricks, darling." That line is delivered with the whole "I'm rolling my eyes as I say this" tone, but it went on for too long to be a rolly-eyes thing (if that makes ANY sense at all).

I suppose it was a good performance overall, though. I'm being kind of nitpicky

[shovell]

Haha! Keeping Up Appearances is amazing

[Fealiks]

Yes it is!

[Giant Tope]

Isn't Elaine supposed to be older than Guybrush? I mean, we've discussed this before, haven't we? With her already being the governor and all that in the first game.

Also, I can't be the only one to severely dislike Elaine's designs from Curse... right? Nothing about her face was ever appealing to me, with the square eyes and the lips and all.

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by shovell

Haha! Keeping Up Appearances is amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbVvSboeBA

[Kroms]

Originally Posted by Giant Tope

Isn't Elaine supposed to be older than Guybrush? I mean, we've discussed this before, haven't we? With her already being the governor and all that in the first game.

Even if she is, she shouldn't sound like she's x > 2 years older than him, and she does come across as being at least twenty years older sometimes.

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by Kroms

Even if she is, she shouldn't sound like she's x > 2 years older than him, and she does come across as being at least twenty years older sometimes.

but thats cos guybrush acts like a 13 year old at times

[Kroms]

And because she acts like she's 50 at others.

This is strange. I hope they fix it...

[Giant Tope]

I'd say Guybrush is in the 27-30 age group by Tales and Elaine would be at least 5 years older than him. That said, Elaine has always been mature for her age and I don't think its much of a stretch to imagine her being exactly so in Tales with Guybrush acting younger than his age. Thus giving the illusion that she is far older than him. idk, just some thoughts.

[Secret Fawful]

Elaine was a bossy beeyotch in all of the games. The only reason we didn't get a face full of it in the first three games was because we didn't see much of her in the first three games. And I think it should be more like that. We should only see her at some pivotal story moments.

[Kroms]

In the first game she's more of a...20 year old Juliet with brains and pirate-like tendencies. She isn't really that angry all the time. I like that Elaine. She's sweet and funny; loving, but independent.

Do you see the resemblance?




I just really want her to look younger if they decide to make a new character model. And write some of her lines better. Maybe fix the acting a little, though that probably needs sound engineering.