Language

[Shwoo]

I think there needs to be a language topic. Half the threads around here seem to turn into one eventually anyway.

So is English the only language that uses whatever the tense for verbs ending with -ing is called? Because that tense is really confusing. I know how to use it an everything, but only because I speak English natively.

[Avistew]

Gerund. And it exists in other languages but the way it's used in English is I guess specific to English. I know in French it's used a lot less often.
For instance something like "it's raining" would be just said "it rains". On the other hand "while waiting for you, I heard this" would use gerund in French too.

[GinnyN]

It's also exists in Spanish. I guess the way it's used is similar than French. (I'm guessing because both languages comes from Latin, sooo...).

I don't know in Chinese. The thing I know about verbs in Chinese is, it doesn't have conjugations. Which mean, they use the exact same word for present, future, past and for I, you, she/he, we, you, they. I think they use particles for know which time they are talking about. I saying I think, because the only thing I know to say is Ni hao and They are Chilean (Tamen shi Zhili ren, I think). Also, the origins of Chinese are totally different of the origins of Japanese, so, you can infer both are similar in that because they're not.

[Avistew]

Not sure why you brought up Chinese if you don't really speak it (unless you were talking about how it's different from Western European languages, I guess), but I can also say "wo (pu) hai ni" in Chinese. Which means "I (don't) like you"

Tenses seem to be vastly different from one language to the next. I have no idea if you can even find equivalents to something like gerund or subjunctive in more "exotic" languages (that is, not European at all. Sorry for the Euro-centrism here).

Maybe Lena can help us since she speaks Arabic, which is vastly different from Roman languages (well, although Spanish partially comes from Arabic).

[Lena_P]

Um, only I don't really speak it? Unfortunately all of my father's relatives under the age of 50 are bilingual, and I went to school in English. My understanding is very limited, really. I do know that the verb is conjugated differently based not only on tense but gender and pronoun. So essentially, if I wanted to say "She saw him" I would just have to say, "Saw him" and people would automatically know I'm referring to a woman having seen him.

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by avistew

Not sure why you brought up Chinese if you don't really speak it (unless you were talking about how it's different from Western European languages, I guess), but I can also say "wo (pu) hai ni" in Chinese. Which means "I (don't) like you"

I'm taking an Chinese Course this semester! I can ask to my teacher if you wanna know, but if they don't have any kind of conjugations, I don't see how they can have Gerund.

Originally Posted by avistew

(well, although Spanish partially comes from Arabic).

The half of Spain was conquered by Arabs and then taken back before the time they decided to pay crazy people to sail and discover America by accident. Of course, there a lot of words which comes from Arabic (Like the word Amohada, which mean pillow) but, mostly, our grammar and good part of our vocabulary comes from Latin. Also, is good to say Spanish itself is just one of the languages from Spain, there's also Catalan/Valencian, Basque, Galician and Aranese as co-official from diferent zones of the said Country. The Reason why Latin America speak spanish is because the conquerors come from the Zone of Castilla, from where the Spanish come from originally (And Castilla was the crown which took Spain back from the Arabs, which explain why is also their official language =P).

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Lena_P

I do know that the verb is conjugated differently based not only on tense but gender and pronoun. So essentially, if I wanted to say "She saw him" I would just have to say, "Saw him" and people would automatically know I'm referring to a woman having seen him.

So kind of like Spanish, but you add gender to that.

[Shwoo]

I think the most interesting word in Spanish to come from Asia that I know of is naranja, mostly because I can't see how the English corrupted it into "orange". And it added the concept of the colour orange to a bunch of European languages.

It's originally from Sanskrit, though.

I don't know any Chinese at all, except for Ni hao, and I think I learned that from Ranma 1/2. I do know that Japanese is totally different, though. They just took China's writing system because they didn't have a system of their own. And in simplifying it, they made it even more complicated. Good job, Japan.

I think most languages would have a present and past tense, even if they use particles like Chinese instead of changing the word like all the European languages I can think of do.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Shwoo

I think the most interesting word in Spanish to come from Asia that I know of is naranja, mostly because I can't see how the English corrupted it into "orange".

a naranja => an aranja => mispronounced j => final a dropped because stress on the first syllable => spelling variation to turn it into orange.

I don't find it that much of a stretch.

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by Shwoo

I think the most interesting word in Spanish to come from Asia that I know of is naranja, mostly because I can't see how the English corrupted it into "orange". And it added the concept of the colour orange to a bunch of European languages.

It's originally from Sanskrit, though.

I found something:

naranja (Spanish) and naronja (Catalán) -> laranja (Portuguese) -> ("la" get separated because is confused as an article) la arancia (Italian) -> (They add the word aurum (gold) for the color of the fruit) orange (French). Then, thanks to the french, the rest of europe get the name this fruit and color.

As a curiosity, the word for Orange in Greek is Portokalos, which come from Portugal, because the portuguese were the ones which introduced the tree in Greece.

[Avistew]

Hey, that's pretty interesting!
(Yes, "or" means "gold" in French. Never realised that was where the "or" of "orange" came from though.)

[Lena_P]

I don't think the Portuguese got it from the Catalán, since they were in contact with Arabs just as much as Catalán was, and it was through Arabic that the word was transported from India.

Also, the Arab word for sweet orange is also Bortugal, with naranj being for a different kind of orange.

[GinnyN]

The first Orange introduced was the Naranj and was introduced first with the Spanish people. When the Portuguese introduced the Sweet Orange, the Spanish people went lazy and called it Naranja anyway because looks similar. Originaly, they called "Naranja de la China" (Naranja from China) but after some time, the Sweet Orange become Naranja in most part of the Spain and Latin America and the Naranj become "Naranja Amarga" (Bitter Orange).

Bortugal come from Portugal, because the portuguese introduced that kind of Orange in Tánger. (It's everything explained in that link, but it's in spanish, I can't do to much about that =P)

[Lena_P]

Don't worry, I already know about it In almost every article I've ever read that discusses the "cross-pollination" of the Arab and Iberian peninsula's cultures they bring up that example.

Another fun fact! Bortugal is what you call the orange, but Bortugali is what you call a person from Portugal. The people on the isle of Suqtra are a fascination for anthropologists since they should be, in theory, the "oldest and purest type of Arab" yet they have a tendency for auburn hair and hazel or green eyes. One theory is that Portuguese sailors mixed with the locals, so a group came in the 60's and asked the islanders, "Do you think your fathers were oranges?"

[GinnyN]

Well, I talk an infamous version of Spanish Called Chilean Spanish (Du'h!) which pretty much has so many words from other languages, for the people from Spain is downright difficult to understand me. Also Chileans talk fast by default (And I talk fast for the normal chilean. That's something!), we normally make dissapear by magic the "s" at the end of a word. And that it's the start of the problems.

We have loan words from Mapudungun and Quechua, which doesn't exist in spanish from Europe, and most part of Latin America. (For example, China is the Quechua word for female servant =P). Also, we have some loan words from German and English, been the most famous "Cachar" which come from the english "to catch", which a coloquial and surperficial way to say understand. And also, I just discovered my accent is a mix of Andalucian people who talk Spanish because Castilla wanted.

In a way, make me talk about Spanish "pure" is a bit problematic, mostly I talk chilean and I use another set of words than the European Spanish.

With that say it, for some reason, we also know good part of our vocabulary is just slang and we try to not use it while we write or with foreigners, but it's weird when we talk about loan words (We think they are spanish, but not that we adapted them from somewhere else). Also, there's some big differences in the words when used in Spain and in Chile. For example, in Chile "polla" is a raffle. In Spain, is the vulgar name of certain male part. So, go and tell to a Spanish person you just brought a number of the "polla" and then look at its face. Some people told me is hilarious.

[Shwoo]

For example, in Chile "polla" is a raffle. In Spain, is the vulgar name of certain male part. So, go and tell to a Spanish person you just brought a number of the "polla" and then look at its face. Some people told me is hilarious.

I love that kind of word drift. You can't use "it" to refer to a person, though. "They" is a better word, but there seems to be disagreement over that.

In most dialects of English, "root" means to search for something, and in American English it also means to support a sports team. In Australia, it means to have sex with.

Also, in Australian English, a rubber is an eraser. In American English, it's a condom.

[Alcoremortis]

The only weird language thing that I know is that name of the Japanese dish, Tempura (fried fish/shrimp/veggies), originally comes from the Latin word "tempora", meaning time. Which is super strange.

Apparently Portugese missionaries in Japan didn't like to eat raw fish (which they had to eat on Friday because they were all Catholic), so taught the Japanese how to deep fry fish. The Japanese really liked the fried fish and made it their own, calling it Tempura or "time to eat fish" since the Portugese only ate fish at one particular time.

[Javi-Wan Kenobi]

Originally Posted by Shwoo

Also, in Australian English, a rubber is an eraser. In American English, it's a condom.

I'm from Spain, and I don't think in my school they taught us Australian English, but originally I've always learned that rubber= eraser. The other meaning, I've learned it later...
And I've leaned (or figured) that meaning because it's the same case in Spansih.
"goma" means both an araser and a condom. It has other meanings, too (elastic ribbon, glue, chewing-gum...)

[puzzlebox]

Originally Posted by Shwoo

In most dialects of English, "root" means to search for something, and in American English it also means to support a sports team. In Australia, it means to have sex with.

For that reason, I always pronounce the verb "route" as "rowt" to avoid confusion, despite merciless teasing from the English guys (they would pronounce it as "root"). Saying it as "root" tends to produce snigger-worthy comments, e.g. "Mike hasn't been able to route anything all day".

It's probably worth noting that "root" is a really vulgar way of saying "have sex with" - something like "screw" would be much milder.

Australians tend to be really big on hypocorisms (shortened words, often with added suffixes like -ie and -o), e.g. "mozzie" for mosquito, and "yewie" for U-turn. I think the most ridiculous example I've seen of it is "degga" being used to refer to a 6-course degustation menu (this was actually in print!).

It's so common that "native speakers" in general can easily navigate new hypocorisms they've never heard before, while it might be confusing to a person with a British English or American English background.

[Rather Dashing]

Lifehacker crashed the Foreign Service Institute's language course downloads with a huge influx of traffic. The files are supposed to be up again later, though.