Did Curse destroy Monkey Island?

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by jawaj

The only complaint ive ever heard about escape is monkey combat. Please think of other reasons to hate that game please

I love the game (apart from Monkey Kombat) but I can think of resions to hate it. Herman Toothrot stupid retcons less Piratey settings and Guybrush looks like a bell hop. But I ignore it all hehe cos I love the jokes in it and I genraly do love playing it.

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by GuruGuru214

Jambalaya Island. The entire area was trying too hard to be funny through anachronisms and failed at it. Yes, I get that it fits with the corporate takeover plot, but that just makes it part of a bigger problem. Things like Starbuccaneer's are not funny, nor do they fit in at all with the rest of the established Monkey Island universe.

God I hated that place! all of it! I much preferred the Knutting Atoll next to it.

[Syd]

Originally Posted by jawaj

The only complaint ive ever heard about escape is monkey combat. Please think of other reasons to hate that game please

On top of everything else that has been mentioned in the posts above, there's also the controls. My god, do I hate that control scheme. I was able to tolerate the similar controls in Grim Fandango because everything else about that game was just so amazing, but Escape had quite a few problems already, so adding bad controls on top of that didn't really help.

[Hiroshi Mishima]

Actually, I found Jambalaya Island to be very amusing. It was one of the first times I'd seen somebody parody Starbucks, Planet Hollywood, and so forth. It might not have fit in very well, but that alone isn't going to make me hate the island, though I guess I can see why some people might.

I do wholeheartedly agree about Monkey Kombat, but at least on the PS2 you had that "cheat sheet" using R2 which seriously made the whole thing SOOO much easier. So the last time I played it, I actually breezed through that part. The rock puzzle earlier on is what gave me trouble, but that was largely due to the interface and my innate disliking of time-based puzzles.

Gods, the interface.. when I FIRST played the game, I actually didn't have any problems with it cause it was my first MI game, but after playing through the earlier 3 and then replaying it again, the flaws with it were glaringly obvious.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by jawaj

The only complaint ive ever heard about escape is monkey combat. Please think of other reasons to hate that game please

Originally Posted by GuruGuru214

Jambalaya Island. The entire area was trying too hard to be funny through anachronisms and failed at it.

- The puzzle to get Peg Nose's info from the prosthetic store.

- Herman Toothrot's psychotic break in which he actually believes himself to be Elaine's grandfather.

- Carnival of the Damned is suspiciously missing from Monkey Island.

- The Giant Monkey Head is destroyed by a big monkey robot.

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

My primary issue with the Monkey Robot in Escape isn't as much as it's stupid and doesn't fit (though that's true), but more so that it destroys the Giant Monkey Head in more ways than one.

The Giant Monkey Head is (presumably) either the fossilized head of an actual giant monkey or made of stone (not metal), as seen here:



and here:



As you can clearly see, there is a giant skeletal structure directly below the Giant Monkey Head. Is there any room for a giant robot to be there? No. The robot's head is suppose to either be part of or inside the Giant Monkey Head, and this giant skeleton is obviously in the way of where its body should be.

So the robot being activated not only physically destroys the Giant Monkey Head, but its very existence contradicts the existence of the skeleton which appears to be physically attached to the head.

Suffice it to say the Monkey Robot not only is stupid, but also make no sense.

[Hiroshi Mishima]

We actually have no idea how far down it is to that skeleton from the Monkey Head. There was also a comment that LeChuck destroyed the carnival when he was resurrected out of anger for his repeated failures.

There's also enough missing information about Elaine's Grandfather to make the notion that Herman really was her grandfather. Being stuck on Monkey Island for many years could've seen him come into contact with other shipwrecked people, such as the boat you sailed to MI in the first game. We only assume that the dead guy on the swing was the captain of that ship, it's never outright stated.

Also, when LeChuck said all those things about Elaine's grandfather in MI3, it's entirely possible he was just trying to make her suffer.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Mishima

We actually have no idea how far down it is to that skeleton from the Monkey Head.

No. There is a head, and at the base of the head would be the top of the spine (ie. neck bones). Also, there is sunlight coming from the hole in the ground where the neck is. There is no room for the body of a huge robot to have been there.

There was also a comment that LeChuck destroyed the carnival when he was resurrected out of anger for his repeated failures.

Where was that? I don't think this is accurate.

There's also enough missing information about Elaine's Grandfather to make the notion that Herman really was her grandfather. Being stuck on Monkey Island for many years could've seen him come into contact with other shipwrecked people, such as the boat you sailed to MI in the first game.

No. The captain's log, in which the captain of The Sea Monkey mentions a man named "Toothrot" as his first mate, is located in the captain's quarters onboard the ship itself and it discusses events that happened before they (ie. he and Toothrot) ever reached the island:

Quote from The Secret of Monkey Island

• "Captain's log, March 10th: First Mate Toothrot and I have been searching for Monkey Island™ for over a month with no success. The directions we purchased on Melee proved to be a recipe, not a map as we had believed.
• "Captain's log, March 12th: I wish Toothrot would take a bath.
• "Captain's log, March 17th: I wish Toothrot would stop snoring.
• "Captain's log, March 23rd: Toothrot is really starting to get on my nerves. I figure it's only a matter of time before we come to blows.
• "Captain's log, April 2nd: As a gesture to restore our friendship, Toothrot offered to fix dinner tonight.
• "Captain's log, April 3rd: I don't know how we did it, but we've arrived at Monkey Island™. Both Toothrot and I passed out from the soup he fixed last night. When we woke, Monkey Island™ was sitting off the port bow.
• "Captain's log. April 4th: Toothrotand I filled the rowboat with supplies and are ready to set out to Monkey Island™. We are both excited at the prospect of being the first civilised people to learn the Secret of Monkey Island™.
• "Captain's log, April 5th: We had to turn around and return to the ship. Toothrot forgot to go to the bathroom before we left. We'll set out again tomorrow.

That was the last entry."

Also, when LeChuck said all those things about Elaine's grandfather in MI3, it's entirely possible he was just trying to make her suffer.

He doesn't want her to suffer--he wants her to love him. He does want her to die, but only so they can be happily undead together for eternity. Further, that explanation was for the sake of tying up the loose ends left by MI2. They have to be accurate, otherwise the point of their being included is lost.

[Jennifer]

I never had a problem with the giant monkey head robot, but I always thought it would be cooler (and fit in better) if the giant monkey came out of the ground as a full skeleton, and then the voodoo magic caused it's boney body (and head) to be encased in metal.

And I liked Jambalya Island's touristy atmosphere because it continued the Disneyland connection that all of the Monkey Island games have had.

I'm also not worried about the apparent retcon in regards to Herman, because I don't think it is a true retcon. I still think Elaine was cursed (by the Voodoo Lady, LeChuck, or both) to believe what they wanted her to think. She accepted Herman too readily and left the governorship on Melee Island too easily. Plus, I never thought Herman or the Voodoo Lady were as benevolent as they seemed.

I didn't like Monkey Kombat though.

[Hiroshi Mishima]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

Where was that? I don't think this is accurate.

I'm pretty sure Herman said it when you talk to him on Monkey Island in MI4. It was after hitting him with the Coconut, I believe. Or was it the Ghostly Priest? I can't remember, I just recall it being mentioned.

I don't see where you're getting the "no there is a head so naturally the spine must follow" because it was never implied that the Monkey Head was an actual skull, especially given the way you opened it, it seems more likely that it was a mechanism or a statue.

And what I said about the Sea Monkey's captain still stands. Having washed up on shore, he could've easily become delusional and started referring to the old man as Herman Toothrot. Or could've asked him if he'd seen such a person. A lot can happen in 20 years, you know. There's all kinds of ways to try and explain it away.

Also, if LeChuck didn't want Elaine to feel upset or angry, he wouldn't keep doing terrible things to her. Many guys who don't have a clue often are mean to women they like (this is also especially noticeable amongst younger people). It's called teasing.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Mishima

it was never implied that the Monkey Head was an actual skull, especially given the way you opened it, it seems more likely that it was a mechanism or a statue.

The sunlight coming from the hole shows that the neck is very near to the surface.

And what I said about the Sea Monkey's captain still stands. Having washed up on shore, he could've easily become delusional and started referring to the old man as Herman Toothrot.

The captain calls him "Toothrot" before they ever reached the island. Herman claims to only have been called Toothrot after reaching the island. That's my entire point. Either way, Toothrot's information is false (as he is either lying or insane) and any further testimony by him can not be considered accurate.

if LeChuck didn't want Elaine to feel upset or angry, he wouldn't keep doing terrible things to her.

Whatever he does to Elaine is always a method to physically get a hold of her, to physically keep her close to him, or to persuade/force her to love him. He might try to kill her (in order to make her undead) but hurting her emotionally by intentioanally saying mean things about her family doesn't fit as a method he would use.

[VoodooDerina]

Problem with EMI is that it's trying too hard to repair the mess Curse did to the series and it really fails doing so.
And yes I do think that Curse destroyed Monkey Island, or at least its spirit and atmosphere established in the first two installments.

[Hiroshi Mishima]

I guess you've not got a lot of experience with the stupid things guys will say or do, Chryon, cause putting your foot in your mouth and never realizing it happens all the time so why should LeChuck be any different.

However, leaving the whole "what he said" part aside, you're still not seeing what I said about Toothrot. The fact that he would've been called Toothrot AFTER he got to the island makes perfect sense considering what I'd said. If the captain of the Sea Monkey started calling him that after he got there (confusing him with his friend or maybe cause he'd gone insane) that'd naturally mean a Toothrot had already existed but that it doesn't necessarily make him the same person. Either I'm not wording this properly, or you're just not trying to see what I'm saying. There's such a thing as "assumed identity".

Also, I think you're confusing sunlight with light in general. The robot monkey control areas were fairly well lit, so light could easily be pouring in from somewhere else.


..also, Voodoo Derina, in what way was Escape trying to fix Curse's mistakes? Besides the change in tone and art style? I don't really see how Escape was trying to steer it back towards what MI1 and 2 were all about. In fact, I'd sure hope we don't try steering it back to MI2, cause then we'd get another nonsensical ending.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Mishima

The fact that he would've been called Toothrot AFTER he got to the island makes perfect sense considering what I'd said. If the captain of the Sea Monkey started calling him that after he got there (confusing him with his friend or maybe cause he'd gone insane) that'd naturally mean a Toothrot had already existed but that it doesn't necessarily make him the same person. Either I'm not wording this properly, or you're just not trying to see what I'm saying. There's such a thing as "assumed identity".

Have you played Escape recently? What Herman says in Escape is that his name is H.T. Marley, that he hit his head while on Monkey Island which made him lose his memory [hitting him again with the same object(s) undoes the damage], and that he found an object with H.T. written on it while on the island after hurting his head which prompted him to call himself "Herman Toothrot."

Herman says in Escape that he didn't start calling himself Herman Toothrot until after he reached the island. However in SoMI, the captain's log onboard the ship that Herman used to arrive there clearly states that the captain called him Herman Toothrot before he reached the island.


...unless what you're trying to say is that the guy who was dead on Monkey Island in SoMI was not the captain but rather someone else named Herman Toothrot, but I'd say that's really reaching. It's more likely that the dead man is the captain, and--in keeping with his ship logs in which he complains at length about Herman--he killed himself because he couldn't put up with Herman anymore.

[Hiroshi Mishima]

I had actually just played through Escape before starting up discussion about Escape in this thread. Finished it like.. beginning of February or something.

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Mishima

There was also a comment that LeChuck destroyed the carnival when he was resurrected out of anger for his repeated failures.

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

Where was that? I don't think this is accurate.

Herman Toothrot said that he destroyed the Carnival in a fit of rage if you ask him about it but Herman will muse LeChuck did it cos he was embarrassed by the idea of an evil amusement park.

[MI_FAN]

CMI is the jewel in the crown of the monkey island series, breathtaking animation, wonderful soundtrack and storyline. how can you not love CMI???

not to mention it was the first game to introduce us all to the legendary Murray!!!!!!