Abandonware: Good, Or Evil (Or awesome)

[Pvt._Public]

I know this is something that a lot of people are always talking about and i also know that there may be a lot of people who are going to call me filthy pirating scum for this and ALSO that there may be another thread much like this hidden elsewhere in the forum but basically, what do you think? Abandonware good or bad?
Personally, having been born back in 1990 i missed out on all the classic games such as Maniac Mansion and whatnot. Also i was a little too young at the time to think that most of the games around then were any good. Where were the explosions? now days though i find my self spending vast sums of money continuously buying classic games. Some games though are impossible to find (at least in NZ). The point is that i download a lot of abandonware. Indiana Jones and the fate of atlantis being the latest one (please, no links). I am aware that some of the people at telltale game may have worked on some of these classic games but i'm sure they know what i'm talking about. Once again, what do you think? should Lucasarts etc. continue saying that i shouldn't download their games despite there being no other way to get them or not?

I think it depends. If it's the only way you can get your hands on a game...I guess it's ok. But, Indiana Jones is most certaintly not abandoned.You obviously didn't even check the company store.
Most people are just looking for free games and will download anything they find on the internet. Whatever happened to supporting the developers?

I'll admit Ive downloaded Sam And MAx and Day of the Tentacle. Both I'm having trouble fixing the sound issues for on windows xp.
But I'll let you know right now If I see them in stores I'd buy them. I'm still looking in pawn shops etc.

Also I already own Day of the Tentacle and Sam and Max for Mac. But I don't have a mac anymore, so I can't play them sadly.
At least I can still use the hint books that came with them.

[Steve2000]

On Abandonware: I guess I would have to say evil. I definitely don't like the idea that games are just being pirated around the internet. I am happy to say that I am old enough to have purchased and still own almost every classic adventure game since Kings Quest 1. I know that all are not so lucky so... I also think it stinks that these companies (Sierra, Lucasarts, et al) don't have the decency to continue to sell these old games. Why not offer the games for download on their website for US $ 5.00 or less? Many people try to illegally download music, but Apple iTunes has shown that plenty of people are willing to a pay a nominal fee to get their music legitimately.

On getting Lucasarts games to work on WinXP: Once again Summvm is the way to go get it here -> www.scummvm.org

[Alucard]

If the game is obsolete and the company isn't making any money off it anymore then why not. There isn't anything to lose on it. Games go obsolete almost as fast as pc hardware. I guess companies are just afraid that people will play all the old games and not buy new ones or something supid like that. As for selling them at 5 bucks US each? Give me a break already. Haven't they milked the public enough ? I'd just put the 5 bucks towards some new game instead. Why not freely distribute them with coupons for new games the company is coming out with or something, maybe the'll get hooked on a series and buy stuff but at least let it be up to date things people spend money on. Like if a game is more then 5 years old and a company is still trying to sell it thats pretty weak.

On Abandonware: I guess I would have to say evil. I definitely don't like the idea that games are just being pirated around the internet.

( I have never understood this mentality. The game is no longer commercially available; no one makes any profit or revenue from it; no one really cares to claim responsibility for it; it gets shoved into the back corner of the closet, destined for forced-obscurity; yet, we're suppsed to bury our head in the ground out of shame if we download it becuase of being the nasty pirates that we are. I will never understand that.

I would have absolutely no problem giving a quick PayPal payment of a few bucks to any game owner/publisher who still makes an old, favorite game available for download without draconian DRM. But if no one cares enough about protecting its copyright, they will by default lose it (at least in the U.S.). You should look up the legal history of the Thermos company to see proof of that.

I used to make software about 10 years ago. I would not be surprised if some of them are still going around. I gave up developing them years ago. So, am I supposed to be incensed if something that I abandoned is still being distributed? I think not.

Sorry for the extended rant, but the "stealing is stealing" attitudes have been a hot button of mine for a l-o-n-g time.

As to awesome vaporware, a few weeks ago I rebuilt an old Pentium 350 w/ PC-DOS 7 (legal) and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (legal) just to play Magic Carpet (legal), which AFAIC is one of the best games every released. (I even have the TCP/IP stack installed! I can surf the Internet through my DSL connection using Netscape 4.08! How's *that* for geeky? )

If the game is obsolete and the company isn't making any money off it anymore then why not. There isn't anything to lose on it. Games go obsolete almost as fast as pc hardware. I guess companies are just afraid that people will play all the old games and not buy new ones or something supid like that. As for selling them at 5 bucks US each? Give me a break already. Haven't they milked the public enough ? I'd just put the 5 bucks towards some new game instead. Why not freely distribute them with coupons for new games the company is coming out with or something, maybe the'll get hooked on a series and buy stuff but at least let it be up to date things people spend money on. Like if a game is more then 5 years old and a company is still trying to sell it thats pretty weak.

Yeah, ok. I'm going to march into my local Best Buy and demand that the DVDs for all TV shows and movies that are older than five years old be given to me free of charge. The solution is not to start giving games away, but to sell older games. I think it's grat when compaines support their old games by selling them on their website. Geez, it's not like you're going to pay full price.

[Alucard]

screw the selling of old games already, the company has already made enough friggen money off of it. It's not like abandonware costs them anything. Your example to march into best buy and demand stuff for free is absurd. Cause there is material costs etc involved. Think of it as taping an old movie thats on tv that you tape (and no not ppv or anything like that I'm talking old movies on basic cable) Plus tv shows and movies don't fade out quite the same way as games do. Take a game like doom or wolf 3d. Those games arn't worth a dime anymore. The same could be said about some tv shows =P. But what I'm saying that the amount that the technology has progressed through the years makes old games uncomparable to those of today.

Yeah, ok. I'm going to march into my local Best Buy and demand that the DVDs for all TV shows and movies that are older than five years old be given to me free of charge.

That is a very, very poor argument.

Abandonware is not judged by its age but by whether or not it is no longer made available commercially and whether or not its copyright is actively enforced by the copyright owner. Technically, if a game is made available even for a few dollars by the copyright owner, it cannot be categorized as abandonware. In that circumstance the game should be purchased and distribution can be classified is illegal.

However, if the game is no longer available for commercial purchase, the publisher is no longer in existance, and the curernt copyright holders (if any) are voluntarily not enforcing their copyright, that most certainly categorizes it as abandonware. The game should be made available to whomever wants it without fear of "you evil pirate" guilt-trippers on his or her tail.

That is a very, very poor argument.

Abandonware is not judged by its age but by whether or not it is no longer made available commercially and whether or not its copyright is actively enforced by the copyright owner. Technically, if a game is made available even for a few dollars by the copyright owner, it cannot be categorized as abandonware. In that circumstance the game should be purchased and distribution can be classified is illegal.

However, if the game is no longer available for commercial purchase, the publisher is no longer in existance, and the curernt copyright holders (if any) are voluntarily not enforcing their copyright, that most certainly categorizes it as abandonware. The game should be made available to whomever wants it without fear of "you evil pirate" guilt-trippers on his or her tail.

Who's guilt-tripping? He's the one who brought up the arbitrary five year rule. Of course my argument was absurd. That was the point. I completely agree with everything else you said.

screw the selling of old games already, the company has already made enough friggen money off of it.

What company? What if they didn't make a lot of money? What if the game sold 30,000 copies?

Take a game like doom or wolf 3d. Those games arn't worth a dime anymore.

Why not? Because they're old? Because they're graphics are outdated? They're still a lot of fun to play. Casual games are very popular right now and they have outdated graphics and simplified gameplay. Why can't ID charge casual game prices?

Who's guilt-tripping?

Trust me. There are many (too many) tunnel-visioned, letter-of-the-law gestapo types out there who have no qualms in trying to lay guilt on any kind of copying. I've gotten into plenty of debates with them.

Of course my argument was absurd. That was the point.

Just making sure.

[Alucard]

this post got me thinking a bit more. It would be nice if companies offered their abandonware at their websites and did things on an optional donation type basis. Cause that way people would know they were getting a clean game and it would be up to them if they wanted to donate. Then proceeds could go to a charity or something like that. I'm sure it'd be good pr. Like I think some games were like that like quake II where you could dl the source code and stuff like that.

this post got me thinking a bit more. It would be nice if companies offered their abandonware at their websites and did things on an optional donation type basis. Cause that way people would know they were getting a clean game and it would be up to them if they wanted to donate. Then proceeds could go to a charity or something like that. I'm sure it'd be good pr. Like I think some games were like that like quake II where you could dl the source code and stuff like that.

Well, some do. Revolution recently released their older adventure games into the public domain. It's great when companies do that, but it should be left up to the company what they want to do with their games. In a perfect world all games would either be easy to buy, or freeware. Unfortunately this isn't the case. I have no problem with abandonware (Ive got an abandonware site in my favorites). What ticks me off are the people who download an old game just because its old, even if its available to purchase. That isnt abandonware. Thats stealing.

Edit:

Trust me. There are many (too many) tunnel-visioned, letter-of-the-law gestapo types out there who have no qualms in trying to lay guilt on any kind of copying. I've gotten into plenty of debates with them.

I really hope I don't come off as one of those guys. I'm not.

[Alucard]

yeah reminds me of simon the sorcerer. That game is so old and last time I checked (actually it's been a while now) it wasn't abandoned yet

[Pvt._Public]

I think it depends. If it's the only way you can get your hands on a game...I guess it's ok. But, Indiana Jones is most certaintly not abandoned.You obviously didn't even check the company store.
Most people are just looking for free games and will download anything they find on the internet. Whatever happened to supporting the developers?

Trust me, I tried that site many a time but they refuse to sell games to anywhere that isn't in the USA or Canada. The point i'm trying to get across is that sometimes it is actually humanly impossible for some people to get games unless they spend a vast sum of money moving to USA. or possibly making a time machine. before i download anything i try to find somewhere that actually still sells the game but as has been pointed out, most people don't think of New Zealand as a real country. I support the developers alot as i don't actually support piracy (except of course for when i there is no other option and i really NEED to experience a game) and spent a large sum of money on Sam and Max, Day of the tentacle, Broken Swords 1 and 2, Monkey Island 1 and 2 and many more but it was a long and painful journey to get each of these games. The only reason i actually got any of them was because of a stroke of luck. Revolution was clever and released Beneath a Steel Sky and Lure Of The Temptress because they realized that it was near impossible to find these games anymore and they wanted people to play these games. Not just hear about them. For Broken Swords 1 and 2 they provide links to a few websites that ship about the world. If all the old games publishers would do this, I wouldn't use abandonware. But they don't so i will continue downloading these classics as it is the only thing i can do to play these games. especially seeing as Lucasarts seem to not want to have anything to do with their actual good game licenses.

I got nearly all lucas adventures in abandonware form or cd image because i owned them all but my cds have been stolen or are now in unusable condition (except monkey 3) and i don t have a floppy drive anymore. I just plain love scummvm.

I did cheat however, like grabing Zak for FM towns (i got this one on C64) or loom CD (mine was a floppy one) to refinish the game with discovery. I bought DOTT twice however (floppy version and later the CD version when i got a CD drive)

I don t feel guilty at all.

I have abandonware versions of MI1 and 2 for the Macintosh...which I got back when I only had a Mac with OS 9, so no ScummVM for me, and actually did already own the PC versions of the games (I tried to get them working with an emulator before giving up and going the abandonware route). I don't regret it or see it as stealing, as the Mac versions of those two games are definitely abandonware--I would've bought them if they were available, but no such luck.

I also have abandonware versions of Loom and Zak McKracken, for the same reason...I'd like to buy them, but LucasArts doesn't sell them.

I've downloaded abandonware. Every time I have I've always hesitated. I suppose the word piracy makes me think, " Die you evil scummbags, you're destroying our movie, gaming and music industries ." Then I buy 40 copies of a blockbuster hit starring Pamela Anderson that's scheduled to come out in 2008. I think that downloading abandonware is probably the weakest form of piracy. Why? Most forms of piracy applies to things that are in there prime. A movie might only have only have come onto the market a day ago. A abandoned game is at least 2 years old.

[Udvarnoky]

There's no such thing as abandonware, is there? A game is either freeware, or it isn't.