Sam & Max, Heroes or Anti-Heroes?

[Nintomster]

Originally posted by Shwoo
Spirit of Christmas Present: It is your own selfish actions that have brought this to pass!
Sam: Selfish? We're Freelance Police!
Max: We save the world. Sometimes on purpose!

Thanks. I had forgot what episode that was.

[LikaLaruku]

Antiheros, bordering on downright villainous. & I'm looking at all the games, the comics, & the cartoon here. They're on par with Deadpool & meybe even leaning a little towards the Batman TAS Joker. They use the law like bad cops. They steal, threaten people with force & guns, break shit, kidnap, tresspass, drive recklessly, destroy property, & it's kind of illegal to be a vigilante. & Dr. Furball also pointed out their own special devil-given detication.

[Nintomster]

Can we also use Sameth and Maximas's (Maximus?) actions as examples too? They are related, and are sort of heroes...

[Fyuran]

Well what drives me crazy is that in the comics their behavior is far more "violent" just like Sam & Max: Hit and Run, which was way more adult oriented, well i guess Telltale games isn't following they way Steve Purcell really wanted them to be :P

[Breakman]

Originally Posted by ABlackEyedPea

I think I still have my James Bond Jr. Secret Decoder ring.

It's, uh, in the trash. At the dump. For years. >_>

Poor ring. At least it's decoding messages in the Big Puzzle in the sky... :/

Originally Posted by LikaLaruku

Antiheros, bordering on downright villainous. & I'm looking at all the games, the comics, & the cartoon here. They're on par with Deadpool & meybe even leaning a little towards the Batman TAS Joker. They use the law like bad cops. They steal, threaten people with force & guns, break shit, kidnap, tresspass, drive recklessly, destroy property, & it's kind of illegal to be a vigilante. & Dr. Furball also pointed out their own special devil-given detication.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Sure the charges of illegal activities are true. But comparing them to Deadpool and/or the Joker? No way.

Sam, at least, has a moral compass (though warped towards over-zealousness law keeping). He always likes to play hero which puts both him and Max in situations best left alone (but luckily for them, they have an endless supply of good luck). If illegal activities are needed to help/save others/the world or, more importantly, their own skins, then so be it.

Max, on the other hand, seems to not know any better. From the comics and cartoon, he seems to often look to Sam for guidance or as an example. As I see it, he is only as bad as Sam lets him to be.

You have to also consider, they are animals (or half, or... whatever). Self-preservation and survival rules the day. Right and wrong, good and evil are subjective. This is definitely true about Max who would shoot anything that remotely threatens him.

Originally Posted by Fyuran

[...] which was way more adult oriented[...]

The correct classification of the comics are YA (Young Adult).

[Remolay]

Originally Posted by LikaLaruku

[Maxpool and Strongpool pictures]

If you did those, you are awesome. If someone else did, you are still awesome for posting them.

I say Sam and Max are Reluctant heroes. This crap just keeps happening to them so they have to do something about it.

Also Deadpool is not a villain. He is a hero at heart, A mercenary because that's all he knows how to do.

[BoneFreak]

Sam and Max are freelance (hence their career title, freelance police). They'll pretty much going to do anything they're commissioned to, so they're pretty much both. The way they complete a task may very to being logical to very violent. I've never actually seen them as anti-heros. Sure, Max is very villainous and violent, but he isn't trying to take over the world or anything. In fact, I think he usually just says, but never actually does. I think he only actually does something violent if it means helping to win the case.

[kane]

BoneFreak he has started to taker a good look in a throw seasons heel on the planet

[Sausy Gibbon]

I've never considered either of them evil, Max is more amoral than really evil and Sam is basically for the greater good.

[splash1]

Max is evil in a good way, although he acts like a villain he really wants good to come out of the world (In the most violent matter of course). And Sam is just an all around good dog, no mystery who the good guys are, eh?

[Shwoo]

Does everybody in this thread realise that "antihero" doesn't mean "villain"? It currently means "morally ambiguous hero".

[Pantagruel's Friend]

Originally Posted by Shwoo

Does everybody in this thread realise that "antihero" doesn't mean "villain"? It currently means "morally ambiguous hero".

It can also mean a main character who fails to do anything heroic. In this sense, they're not anti-heroes.

[tabstis]

They just try to accomplish their goal in whatever way possible. Even if it means performing illegal activity along the way.

[Shwoo]

Originally Posted by Pantagruel's Friend

It can also mean a main character who fails to do anything heroic. In this sense, they're not anti-heroes.

Yes. That's a more old-fashioned meaning, though.

[tredlow]

Originally Posted by BoneFreak

Sam and Max are freelance (hence their career title, freelance police). They'll pretty much going to do anything they're commissioned to, so they're pretty much both. The way they complete a task may very to being logical to very violent. I've never actually seen them as anti-heros. Sure, Max is very villainous and violent, but he isn't trying to take over the world or anything. In fact, I think he usually just says, but never actually does. I think he only actually does something violent if it means helping to win the case.

They're saving the world (or, at least leaning towards it) in season 3 without the commissioner telling them to. Though it can be argued that throughout the whole season, they're just following the series of events out of curiosity.

[Pantagruel's Friend]

Originally Posted by Shwoo

Yes. That's a more old-fashioned meaning, though.

Aw, I feel so '98 now

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Fyuran

Well what drives me crazy is that in the comics their behavior is far more "violent" just like Sam & Max: Hit and Run, which was way more adult oriented, well i guess Telltale games isn't following they way Steve Purcell really wanted them to be :P

What is Sam and Max Hit and Run? An adult-oriented Sam and Max game? If you're talking about Sam & Max Hit the Road, last time I played that they couldn't even take out their guns...

[ABlackEyedPea]

Well, thing is you guys are using the incorruptible models of Superman, Captain America and the like -- classic capes -- as the idea of heroes. You've gotta look a bit away from that.

Sam & Max are on the level of Batman with how much they teeter on the border between heroic and anti-heroic. Batman, for example, has many the typical ideals and traits of a true hero, but his actions often contradict that. Sam & Max tend to the exact opposite. They are very anti-heroic in their characterization, but their actions for the good of the city, the people, the nation and sometimes even the world contradict that. Sam & Max may enjoy their work and use excessive force, but I don't think they're genuine anti-heroes.

Sam & Max also aren't really anti-heroes in that they don't often profit from their work in the way typical ones do. Frank Castle works for revenge, as does Kratos (if you can even call him an anti-hero). Even Deadpool mostly works for money, being a mercenary. The profit is mostly from doing the work in the first place, and that's it.

[kane]

someone say they are not anti-heroes and more like heroes see what happens

[Shwoo]

Originally Posted by ABlackEyedPea

Sam & Max also aren't really anti-heroes in that they don't often profit from their work in the way typical ones do. Frank Castle works for revenge, as does Kratos (if you can even call him an anti-hero). Even Deadpool mostly works for money, being a mercenary. The profit is mostly from doing the work in the first place, and that's it.

That's not what defines an anti-hero. An anti-hero is a protagonist who doesn't have all the traits normally associated with a hero.

A normal hero wouldn't throw a bomb out a window because there's nothing but strangers out there, for example. Sam does care about justice, but he goes about it in a weird and callous way.