guybrush and lechuck are ........? or lechuck lied?

[nemesis1221]

guybrush and lechuck are really brothers? or lechuck lied for: ... ending of 2...

i dont think they are really... but i want a second opinion.

thanx.

[Gibbeynator]

I think it's widely believe that that was the original intention of Ron Gilbert, but it was explained away in Curse by saying that Guybrush was hypnotized during that entire sequence.

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by Gibbeynator

I think it's widely believe that that was the original intention of Ron Gilbert, but it was explained away in Curse by saying that Guybrush was hypnotized during that entire sequence.

Hypnotized? Who says that and when?
But noone really speaks about Guybrush and LeChuck being brothers in CMI anymore, that's true.

[Farlander]

But noone really speaks about Guybrush and LeChuck being brothers in CMI anymore, that's true.

If we talk about CMI, you can ask LeChuck if he's really your brother. He'll reply with something along the lines of "In a sense yes, in a sense not".

[doodinthemood]

This question is really about the "original" idea versus the "portrayed" idea.
In the games after LCR, it is pretty much taken for granted that the end of LCR was all the effects of a curse by LeChuck. If we're assuming that everything in all of the games is true and cannot be ignored, then LeChuck lied, they aren't brothers, and the end of LCR was a spell that LeChuck cast.

The original idea is a different matter. For the original idea you can only look at the first two games (the ones Ron was involved with) and there are quite a few reasons to believe that the end of LCR is an accurate depiction of a revelation, and almost all of the rest of the first two games is fanciful/dreamed up/semi-hallucinated and depicts guybrush' fantastical ideas about being a pirate, and his brother being evil, and needing to go on a quest, etc.
If you're interested, look up the theory about the secret of monkey island that says it's all the imagination of a boy at a theme park.
Those who deny this interpretation point to the VERY end of LCR, where adult Elaine says "I hope LeChuck hasn't put a spell on Guybrush". One point of denial for specifically the brothers bit, is that Guybrush is adopted, and yet the bone of his adopted parents works in a voodoo doll for LeChuck.

[Sir Primalform Magnifico]

I can't believe I never picked up on that! Given that the Monkey Island games were inspired by the PotC ride, the ending is implying that the events of the two games were in Guybrush's head (presumably after seeing the ride).

Of course the bit during the credits with Elaine could be interpreted in two ways:
In a literal sense, meaning the child/theme park thing is a spell. Guybrush just thinks he's a little boy.
The other interpretation is that it's just a joke, the Elaine in Guybrush's imagination is waiting for him to 'come back'. The world in his head is carrying on without him.

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by Farlander

If we talk about CMI, you can ask LeChuck if he's really your brother. He'll reply with something along the lines of "In a sense yes, in a sense not".

I just replayed the whole carnival dialogue scene in CMI. I couldn't find that or a similar line anywhere.

[Spadge]

The whole brother thing was just a Star Wars parody. Don't worry about it.

And even then, the whole ending of MI2 was a dream. He just fell and hit his head really hard or was hypnotized or under a curse or something. CMI's big sin is that it tried to make the MI2 ending real. The Carnival in CMI and all that... There was no need for it.

[SM_Unlimited]

I would of accepting the ending was just guybrush dreaming or something, but then lil chucky doing the eyes glowing red thing behind him as he and lil guybrush walk away with parents just kinda throws that theory out the window. As the name of MI2 suggest, lechuck got his revenge! (albeit a baffling and confusing way)

[Tilan]

Originally Posted by Farlander

If we talk about CMI, you can ask LeChuck if he's really your brother. He'll reply with something along the lines of "In a sense yes, in a sense not".

Uh, I thought it was Ron Gilbert who said that in an interview, not LeChuck in CMI...

[Farlander]

Uh, I thought it was Ron Gilbert who said that in an interview, not LeChuck in CMI...

...
ROFL

Maybe it's not in CMI... I didn't play the game for a long time, but I can picture LeChuck saying that phrase. Heh. My bad

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Spadge

The whole brother thing was just a Star Wars parody. Don't worry about it.

And even then, the whole ending of MI2 was a dream. He just fell and hit his head really hard or was hypnotized or under a curse or something.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Spadge

CMI's big sin is that it tried to make the MI2 ending real. The Carnival in CMI and all that... There was no need for it.

No. I think that there was a need for it. Ron ended MI2 on a confusing note and himself never got around to explaining it. There needed to have been some mention of it.

If there hadn't been, between LCR-CMI and EMI-ToMI, a pattern would be created in the vein of "oops, we messed up the plot... oh well, if we ignore it maybe they won't notice." ToMI started off with a new story only barely related to EMI (ie. the ultimate insult is part of the cutlass.) I'm glad it did, but I don't want the same to happen for all problems with the series' overall story, otherwise it would feel as though the story was tacked on as an afterthought... nevermind if it made any sense cuz no one would ever explain it.


Also, for myself, I liked for CMI to have that explanation because it helps me tolerate LCR's ending more.

[Irishmile]

Voodoo did it!!

Ok here is the thing... I think they were intended to be for the ha ha look its like star wars joke, and the puzzle to make a LeChuck voodoo doll... but its one of those things I do not mind if they throw it away with a take back explanation... if he lied though it still means LeChuck had his parents remains just sitting around... the LeChuck sure is one messed up fella.

[Psychotron7x2]

I like to think the interpretation of the ending is the one used by CMI: Guybrush is put under a curse by LeChuck which transformed him into a child with no idea whats going on and LeChuck isn't really his brother. I mean, if Ron intended for a third game to exists (as he said numerous times) then how could Guybrush be dreaming the whole thing? What would his third game be about if it is revealed that the pirate world isn't real?

It was also shown in CMI that LeChuck has the ability to transform Guybrush into a child and he needs the hangover cure to snap himself out of it, same as MI2.

[jeeno0142]

I think I'll always interpret the end as LeChuck casting a voodoo spell on Guybrush. I don't believe that they are brothers.

Originally Posted by doodinthemood

One point of denial for specifically the brothers bit, is that Guybrush is adopted, and yet the bone of his adopted parents works in a voodoo doll for LeChuck.

I always accepted that the bones would work, since earlier in the game when you're making a voodoo doll of Largo, you go to get his clothing and you're given a bra. I for one don't think that the bra was Largo's and yet it worked in the voodoo doll. The Voodoo Lady tells you that the doll has weak ingredients and that for it to work you have to be close. It's the same with the LeChuck doll. You have to chase him to the next room and be beside him to make it work as the bones are the weak ingredient.

[StarEye]

Originally Posted by jeeno0142

I think I'll always interpret the end as LeChuck casting a voodoo spell on Guybrush. I don't believe that they are brothers.



I always accepted that the bones would work, since earlier in the game when you're making a voodoo doll of Largo, you go to get his clothing and you're given a bra. I for one don't think that the bra was Largo's and yet it worked in the voodoo doll. The Voodoo Lady tells you that the doll has weak ingredients and that for it to work you have to be close. It's the same with the LeChuck doll. You have to chase him to the next room and be beside him to make it work as the bones are the weak ingredient.

Actually, the bra IS Largo's, since he sent it to the cleaner. And the reason he sent it to the cleaner is because you put a bucket of mud over his door and it fell on him, thus he must have worn the bra. Either that, or the ticket is false. The weak ingredient is the "something from the head" part, where you bring the voodoo lady his wig - she then says "not quite a part of his head, but maybe I can get a few bits of his scalp from it". I always assumed this is what she referred to when she was talking about the weak part. Coincidently, the weak part of the LeChuck voodoo doll is probably also the "something from the head" ingredient. More foreshadowing, as Ron, Tim or Dave would say.

EDIT: nevermind, it's obviously "something from the dead" that is the parent's skull. I still stand by the Largo point, though.

[jeeno0142]

Originally Posted by StarEye

Either that, or the ticket is false.

This is sort of what I believe. I thinkMad Marty muddled it up. I also agree about the wig part though!

[Mermaid]

Weirdly enough, when you play the Monkey Lite version of MI2, the cloth ingredient isn't a bra, but a shirt...

[doodinthemood]

If you play MI2 backwards, it says something about Paul being dead.

[Farlander]

And if you play it in the next order: Part 4, 1, 3, 2... then... then I'll let you figure it out all by yourselves, but, trust me, it'll blow your mind wide open