Jennifer Hale vioce actRESS

[doodo!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuaD6cC5RpA

Yep, actress, not actor, nope nope noppity...a ring a ring ding, a ring a ring dingg...ok you guys can pick up the phone now, tell me what you think. I think it's pretty awesome.

[GaryCXJk]

Who cares? It's doctor, not doctress. Why should we make a special destinction between actor and actress?

Also, by now everybody has known about or at least heard Jennifer Hale.

Although I did not know she also did Mandy from Totally Spies. Did know about Sam though.

[doodo!]

Originally Posted by GaryCXJk

Who cares? It's doctor, not doctress. Why should we make a special destinction between actor and actress?

Also, by now everybody has known about or at least heard Jennifer Hale.

Well, I'd imagine they have. I was just bringing her up, I was curious which can be a good base for a conversation and at the least I got nothing to lose.

I don't know the distinction, reminds me of a question I asked earlier today.

[GaryCXJk]

Also, she's one of the few on my favorite voice actors list, the other being Tara Strong (Bubbles, Timmy Turner, Rikku) and a few others I forgot.

Dominic Armato.

[Fealiks]

I actually think it's much more sexist to call female actors "actresses". I don't see any reason to make the distinction. After all, you don't get blacktors, do you?

[That's one of mine, ladies and gentlemen. Thayou, thayouvemuch. Try the fish.]

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

After all, you don't get blacktors, do you?

I don't get the joke.

Anyways, some words are the same and some are different. When I see an actress called an actor it's for me the equivalent of calling a woman a man, so it's weird. It's not like there was just the word "actor" and someone decided to add "actress". It's like waiter/waitress or hero/heroine, the gender is included in the word and there is no gender-neutral version.

But if it changes and the word "actress" disappears I'm not going to be brokenhearted, either. It's not like it's needed to have two. Just, since there are two, one male and one female, makes sense to me to use them accordingly, and not call males actresses or female actors.

[Fealiks]

Originally Posted by Avistew

I don't get the joke.

As in, you don't call white actors "actors" and black actors "blacktors", so why should you call female actors "actresses"?

Since English doesn't include any form of grammatical gender, the distinction between "actor" and "actress" is unnecessary, in my opinion. It only serves as a social distinction, it has no real purpose in the English language.

Contrary to what you said, the word "actor" was actually originally used for both men and women. It was originally a word in its own right which was more generic and meant "an agent, doer, etc.". The sense that is used today of a person acting in a play or film began to emerge in the 1580s. "Actress" began to emerge much later (around the early 1700s) when a few women were "allowed" to act in plays (something which started around the 1660s), meaning that, in my opinion, the word is an artefact of a time when it was necessary to make the distinction because sexism was the norm. Since sexism is generally no longer accepted, I think that using the word "actor" for both sexes is appropriate.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

As in, you don't call white actors "actors" and black actors "blacktors", so why should you call female actors "actresses"?

Ah. I kept trying to figure out what a "whitor" is.

Originally Posted by Fealiks

Since English doesn't include any form of grammatical gender, the distinction between "actor" and "actress" is unnecessary, in my opinion. It only serves as a social distinction, it has no real purpose in the English language.

Same think goes for "king" and "queen" though. The distinction was important because queens didn't rule, they were just the king's spouse. You wouldn't say "king" for the queen though.

If it was originally "actor" for both, it's different I guess, though. I thought "actor" was used for males only and "actress" for females only, and people went "we don't need two words, let's use the male one for females", which makes no sense to me.

Still, if you say "actor", no way I'm going to picture a non-male. I guess it's because I learned the word as referring to only males.

[Fealiks]

Yeah, it might also be that the French language incorporates gender pretty heavily, whereas English doesn't. To me, it seems weird that only a few words out of millions consider gender (not including proper names).

Also, in looking at the etymologies of words like "actress", it seems that almost universally, the "-ess" suffix was added much later for social reasons. For example, the word "waitress" was first recorded in 1834, whereas "waiter" was being used from the late 1400s.

"Stewardess" is an interesting one, too. Apparently, "steward" was used from the mid 1400s and "stewardess" only emerged in 1837 out of necessity. Stewardesses back then were female stewards on ships who were employed exclusively to tend to the female patrons. That's really telling of a high level of segregation back then that is no longer present, so I don't see why we should continue to use the word "stewardess". In the 60s and 70s, airlines used the word as a blatant advertisement, claiming that their stewardesses were the most sexually attractive and so customers should fly with them.

[Avistew]

I think just banning the words isn't the way to go though. They're in common use now. Maybe they started as some kind of segregation, but you can't stop using words just like that... they evolve in meaning and connotations. That's the way it goes. You can only decide which words you personally use, really.

Of course, French is heavily gendered, all nouns have a gender. Even when the word happens to be the same, the article will be different (different "a" or "the"). Still, word gender doesn't always match person gender. "Sentinel" for instance is always feminine even for males. "Person" itself is always feminine even if the person is a male. Since adjectives too are feminine or masculine, it can lead you to use lots of feminine adjectives when talking about a male, or the other way around.

[EDIT] Example to make it clearer: if you say "he's a nice person", "nice" will be the feminine form because "person" is feminine, even though it's a "he".[/EDIT]

Anyways, I'll try from now on to remember that "actor" can mean a female. It's hard for me because I'm so used to having a hint of gender in every word. I know "cousin" in English is a tricky one for me. All the other family words are gendered ((grand)father/(grand)mother, (grand)son/(grand)daughter, brother/sister, uncle/aunt, nephew/niece...), but not this one, and I get very curious why...

[Comrade Pants]

Jennifer Hale portrayed Bastila Shan in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. This makes me happy.

[Fealiks]

Originally Posted by Avistew

I think just banning the words isn't the way to go though. They're in common use now. Maybe they started as some kind of segregation, but you can't stop using words just like that... they evolve in meaning and connotations. That's the way it goes. You can only decide which words you personally use, really.

I don't think any words should be banned either, I just think that the idea that using "actor" to refer to females is sexist is ironic because, in my opinion, it's more sexist to use "actress" at all. As you said though, most people don't see it like that.

Originally Posted by Avistew

Anyways, I'll try from now on to remember that "actor" can mean a female. It's hard for me because I'm so used to having a hint of gender in every word. I know "cousin" in English is a tricky one for me. All the other family words are gendered ((grand)father/(grand)mother, (grand)son/(grand)daughter, brother/sister, uncle/aunt, nephew/niece...), but not this one, and I get very curious why...

I think it's because the word "cousin" is more generic than, for example, the word "sister".

While "sibling" is the hypernym of "sister" and "grandparent" is the hypernym of "grandfather", "cousin" has no hyponyms and so it's the only family-related word that isn't specific to gender (that is, it's the only family-related word that has no gender-specific words associated with it).

[since it's not common knowledge: a hypernym is a word that's "above" another word and a hyponym is a word that's "below" another word. For example, "colour" is the hypernym of "blue" and "blue" is a hyponym of "colour". By the same token, "teal" is a hyponym of "blue" and both "colour" and "blue" are the hypernyms of "teal"]

Originally Posted by Comrade Pants

Jennifer Hale portrayed Bastila Shan in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. This makes me happy.

She also portrayed Commander Shepard about 10 times better than Mark Meer did in Mass Effect. That's why femshep is always the way to go.

[puzzlebox]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

While "sibling" is the hypernym of "sister" and "grandparent" is the hypernym of "grandfather", "cousin" has no hyponyms and so it's the only family-related word that isn't specific to gender (that is, it's the only family-related word that has no gender-specific words associated with it).

I also find it slightly odd that there's no genderless term (wait, I can try this new word... hypernym!) for aunt/uncle.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

While "sibling" is the hypernym of "sister" and "grandparent" is the hypernym of "grandfather", "cousin" has no hyponyms and so it's the only family-related word that isn't specific to gender (that is, it's the only family-related word that has no gender-specific words associated with it).

Interestingly enough, there is no word for "sibling" in French. You can't say "my siblings", you have to say "my brothers and sisters" every time. Unless you only have one kind. So asking if someone has siblings is more complicated ("do you have brothers and/or sisters?")

Originally Posted by Fealiks

By the same token, "teal" is a hyponym of "blue" and both "colour" and "blue" are the hypernyms of "crimson"

Er, isn't crimson red?

[Comrade Pants]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

She also portrayed Commander Shepard about 10 times better than Mark Meer did in Mass Effect. That's why femshep is always the way to go.

This I agree to. Manshep had no emotion or depth to his character, it seemed. This was not an issue with Femshep.

[doodo!]

Comrade Pants is awesome. Did I add this guy as a friend yet? I gotta check it out.

For whatever reason I think he's "cool"...not like cool like Arnold though.

[Fealiks]

Originally Posted by Avistew

Interestingly enough, there is no word for "sibling" in French. You can't say "my siblings", you have to say "my brothers and sisters" every time. Unless you only have one kind. So asking if someone has siblings is more complicated ("do you have brothers and/or sisters?")



Er, isn't crimson red?

Um, I meant to type "teal"... >.>

I confused myself. I was watching TV while typing that post.

Originally Posted by Comrade Pants

This I agree to. Manshep had no emotion or depth to his character, it seemed. This was not an issue with Femshep.

Agreed. Manshep's voice really gets on my noyvs.

[Comrade Pants]

Originally Posted by doodo!

Comrade Pants is awesome. Did I add this guy as a friend yet? I gotta check it out.

For whatever reason I think he's "cool"...not like cool like Arnold though.

I have never before been accused of being cool. How dare you insult my nerd honour! In any case, I totally accepted your request.

Originally Posted by Fealiks

Agreed. Manshep's voice really gets on my noyvs.

Yes. Why they didn't pick a better voice actor is beyond me. I'd rather have George Lowe (the Space Ghost from SGC2C) do that voice. At least it would be lulzy. Ever meet George Lowe? Awesome guy.

[Fealiks]

They should have got Richard Dean Anderson. Femshep's voice reminds me a lot of Sam Carter, so it only stands to reason that Manshep's voice should remind me of Jack O'Neill.

I can hear it now. "Space squid? For cryin' out loud."

[Comrade Pants]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

They should have got Richard Dean Anderson. Femshep's voice reminds me a lot of Sam Carter, so it only stands to reason that Manshep's voice should remind me of Jack O'Neill.

I can hear it now. "Space squid? For cryin' out loud."

Only if XO Pressley in the first game was Michael Hogan. The guy reeks of Commander Saul Tigh.