POKER NIGHT: Poker rules issues in game

[furrykef]

Originally Posted by Specula

I've read over it and the only response to this I've found is: "For the 10,000th time, it shows who won the main pot, not the side pot". I hate to break it to you, but this is not how texas hold 'em works. It is deterimined exclusively by the cards in hand, winning hand takes all. a winning hand does not 'lose' because there is a side pot.

No, the winning hand does not take all. If that were the case, side pots wouldn't even exist. A player can only win the portion of the pot they invested in. The game does have a strange definition of "winning hand", though (which the patch will fix).

This isn't to say that the situation you describe is necessarily a side pot issue. It shouldn't be possible to have the best hand and lose the tournament on that hand...

[NeatNit]

Originally Posted by Specula

I've read over it and the only response to this I've found is: "For the 10,000th time, it shows who won the main pot, not the side pot".

No, the name you hear is only the name of thee prson who got the most money, no matter if it's the main pot or a side pot. Still, you should never lose a game with a winning hand, so I'm not sure what happened.

And to further clarify the above post, once you go all-in, everyone else can at best call you. Any further raising goes into a seperate pot which you cannot win. (and this also includes any extra money that was bet before you that you couldn't call, I believe)

[Jorin]

There's definitely something screwy with the hand evaluation logic. I just saw the Heavy with AA778 (not a flush, announced as two pair) beat Tycho with A A884 (again, announced as two pair). It wasn't a matter of taking the side pot or anything, Tycho was busted out as a result of the hand. Of course, the eval logic is /usually/ right, so I suspect it's some subtle memory overwrite bug or somesuch, but it's still annoying.

[Jake]

From the upcoming update:

Poker & Gameplay Fixes

* At the end of a hand, winners of the main pot and any side pots all announced individually. (Previously, only the winner of the biggest pot was announced.)

* Each round, the minimum raise starts at the big blind until someone raises, after which the minimum raise is the amount of that last raise.

* In heads up (one on one) play, the dealer is now the small blind and first to act pre-flop.

* If a someone folds and is part of a side pot, and after the fold only one person remains in the sidepot, the sidepot gets cleared and paid out to that one remaining person.

* The tutorial now automatically comes up once, the first time the game is played. It is still also available on-demand from the Poker Help screen.

* Players who have a straight flush, four of a kind, full house, flush or straight will now get the appropriate hand achievement even if everyone else folds to them in that hand.

* Fixed issue causing character tells to almost never play.

* Fixed issue causing only one of the player's hole cards to display when skipping dialog.

* Improved readability/consistency on the unlockable Strong Bad card deck.

* Max properly leaves the table after his "I'll be in the bar" bust out line.

[Veloso]

Originally Posted by Jake

From the upcoming update:

...

* Each round, the minimum raise starts at the big blind until someone raises, after which the minimum raise is the amount of that last raise.

The betting situation is much improved post-patch, but still not right. While the patch notes describe the rule correctly, the actual patch does something different.

On the start of each new betting round (pre-flop, post-flop, turn, river), the minimum bet should be the big blind. In the current implementation, however, the minimum bet is based on the last bet on the previous betting round, which is incorrect.

[furrykef]

Originally Posted by Veloso

In the current implementation, however, the minimum bet is based on the last bet on the previous betting round

*jaw drops*

Umm... yeah, that's certainly wrong. ^^;;;; Granted, I can't really imagine when it'd be correct strategy to bet less than that amount, but the game shouldn't enforce that.

By the way, I haven't played the patch, so I've yet to test this rule, but I should reiterate a detail in case it may have been missed: if a character raises less than the minimum (because he is going all-in), it should not reopen the betting. For example, if I bet $1000, and Tycho raises all-in for $100 more, I'm not allowed to reraise, because Tycho's raise was less than $1000. It's an important rule in "real" poker, but I'm willing to look the other way if there aren't any plans to implement it.

- Kef

[HoboStew]

Originally Posted by Veloso

The betting situation is much improved post-patch, but still not right. While the patch notes describe the rule correctly, the actual patch does something different.

On the start of each new betting round (pre-flop, post-flop, turn, river), the minimum bet should be the big blind. In the current implementation, however, the minimum bet is based on the last bet on the previous betting round, which is incorrect.

It is hard to find universal agreement on rules, so we just went with the top googled sites for holdem rules:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In no-limit hold 'em, players may bet or raise any amount over the minimum raise up to all of the chips the player has at the table (called an all-in bet). The minimum raise is equal to the size of the previous bet or raise. If someone wishes to re-raise, they must raise at least the amount of the previous raise. For example, if the big blind is $2 and there is a raise of $6 to a total of $8, a re-raise must be at least $6 more for a total of $14.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_hold_'em)

Originally Posted by PokerListings

Once a bet has been made, the minimum you can raise is the size of the last bet. So if your opponent bets $5, the minimum raise you can make is $5 (for a total bet of $10). Again, the maximum raise is the total of whatever you have in front of you.(http://www.pokerlistings.com/texas-holdem-betting-rules)

[furrykef]

But nobody plays no-limit hold'em that way. The rules you cite assume that you understand that the betting is reset to the size of the big blind on the next betting round. Notice that both articles you cite say the minimum raise -- not the minimum bet -- is the size of the previous bet or raise.

In any case, I urge you to use Robert's Rules of Poker as your guide. It is much more well-specified than the sources you cite, and it is the most common rule set in the United States. I imagine most other rule sets are very close, if not identical, as far as actual gameplay is concerned.

[Veloso]

Well, it certainly doesn't help that there's a lot of misinformation out there. Even this thread had a lot of debate on what the right rules are. This is unfortunate, because it makes these rules questions seem controversial, and really they're not. While people play all sorts of crazy rules in home games, practically any online or brick-and-mortar cardroom you visit will use the rules we're describing.

Originally Posted by furrykef

In any case, I urge you to use Robert's Rules of Poker as your guide. It is much more well-specified than the sources you cite, and it is the most common rule set in the United States. I imagine most other rule sets are very close, if not identical, as far as actual gameplay is concerned.

Second this. You could also look at the Poker Tournament Director's Associaton's rules. They aim to make a standardized set of tournament poker rules. It's a different ruleset that gives the same answers to the questions being asked here.

[Shen-Zhi]

so... uhm... the update installed today on steam. i never had an issue before the update, maybe i was just lucky.

but a few minutes ago i missed the grand prize (SASHA!!) because a pair of eights from strongbad beat my pair of jacks!

attached the file (hope that works, my first image upload..)

edit: uhm.. not really a big picture but sure donwloadble and possible to enlarge. this got anything to do with side pot (which i haven't fully understood by now)?

yeah i'm a poker noob..

[PISLIX]

Well, I don't know much about poker. I'm gonna shoot a question.

2 pairs on the table. 10-10, 2-2
1 pair on my hand. 6-6
no pair on Max's hand.

The game decided that it was a tie... Was it correct?

[furrykef]

No, that wouldn't be correct. It'd be nice to have a video or screenshot to be sure that it happened that way, though...

[PISLIX]

Originally Posted by furrykef

No, that wouldn't be correct. It'd be nice to have a video or screenshot to be sure that it happened that way, though...

Dang it! From now on, I'll take screenshots...

[kruse]

Trying to say that something is an official rule of poker is such as putting forth effort to say that something is an official rule of beer pong. There are no official rules. There are the most common rules, sure, but that doesn't mean anything.