Game too easy/ short/ lacks puzzles Thread

[Overture]

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

But the thing is that non-gamers don't play games. Hence the title: Non Gamers. Making games for people who don't play games doesn't make any sense. It's like making music for tone deaf people.

Expanding an audience is all well and good, but expanding into a realm of people who aren't interested in the first place just seems strange to me.

Nintendo did it with the Wii, very successfully. Granted, many people left it in the corner gathering dust after trying it, but many more continued to play games afterwards.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by Overture

Nintendo did it with the Wii, very successfully. Granted, many people left it in the corner gathering dust after trying it, but many more continued to play games afterwards.

Nintendo's sales have been tanking, pretty damn hard, which leads me to believe that the only people still somewhat interested in the Wii are people who bought it to play games, rather than the soccer moms who thought Wii Sports or Wii Fit looked neat.

[Overture]

Originally Posted by SHODANFreeman

It's like if they announced an official BttF novel, but decided they wanted to make it appeal to people who don't normally read, so they just replaced all of the words with pictures. It's dumbing it down to the point where I have to ask "Why the hell was it made as a game in the first place?".

Bit of a long bow there - most humans are capable of gaming and don't, not necessarily because they don't want to but because they haven't before or haven't seen anything that would make them want to. People who don't read usually don't by choice or becaase they can't - and I can't imagine them picking up a BTTF-4 book, whereas a/v media is more enticing.

As for calling it a game...it's a fine line, I admit. But it's probably easier to get the go-ahead on a game instead of an animation or new movie, as well as cheaper by far.

[Overture]

Originally Posted by SHODANFreeman

Nintendo's sales have been tanking, pretty damn hard, which leads me to believe that the only people still somewhat interested in the Wii are people who bought it to play games, rather than the soccer moms who thought Wii Sports or Wii Fit looked neat.

Maybe, but it WAS 4.5 years ago, and it was successful. And the software support has been pretty atrocious lately - also I wouldn't be surprised if many new-found gaming fans moved on to more "hardcore" experiences. And the 3DS didn't revolutionise gaming the way the touch double screen did on the original DS or the Wii controls. So yes, Ninty have let it slide a bit and have a lot to prove at E3 this year, but they still proved their point.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by Overture

also I wouldn't be surprised if many new-found gaming fans moved on to more "hardcore" experiences.

I would be. The console was marketed to people who are so incompetent that they are terrified by the concept of pressing a button to make something happen on screen, and can't associate anything happening on screen with any action that doesn't directly mirror it. These are not the kind of people who can handle "hardcore" games. No one is going to jump from Farmville to Civ.

[Overture]

Originally Posted by SHODANFreeman

I would be. The console was marketed to people who are so incompetent that they are terrified by the concept of pressing a button to make something happen on screen, and can't associate anything happening on screen with any action that doesn't directly mirror it. These are not the kind of people who can handle "hardcore" games. No one is going to jump from Farmville to Civ.

I still think they were successful though. They shifted a lot of consoles, and made money on each compared to the other big two, who took losses on the console to force their way into the market and made money on the games and accessories instead.
Don't even get me STARTED on Zynga games.

[Chyron8472]

Let's get back to BTTF.

Originally Posted by Overture

Let's face it, if you're a Sam and Max fan who loves BTTF and was disappointed with the BTTF season, you're not likely to boycott S&M Season 4, should it get made.

I can personally disagree first-hand on that point. I started buying TTG's games when ToMI was being developed, and I was so excited about Telltale's games that I was up for buying almost any game they made. Granted, their games did have bugs and glitches here and there, but I was willing to let it slide for the sake of supporting Telltale's effort to renew the status of the adventure gaming genre to what it once was. As of now, I have ToMI, S&M 1,2,3, W&G, Puzzle Agent, Poker Night, SBCG4AP and BTTF ep. 1.

Two things have hit me hard in the realm of buying TTG stuff. First, I pre-ordered the ToMI Deluxe Edition set and after an exceptionally long time of waiting, the extra merch included was a joke if not a slap in the face. Then BTTF was released and is quite literally so easy a three-headed monkey could play it, among the other sloppy problems it has.

Now, I will not buy a TTG game nor merch until someone else can tell me first-hand that it's good. I won't take the company's word for it anymore and that's saying something about their loss of reputation for making good games and other merchandise. My expectations at this point are such that I may even wait for King's Quest to be released before actually deciding whether or not to buy it, and I'm a HUGE KQ fan.

[flesk]

I'm in the exact same situation, except that I also bought Bone, episodes 2-5 of BttF and Telltale Texas Hold 'EM. The latter just to support Telltale, as I didn't think I'd like it before I bought, and was proven right after I played it. Good dialogue alone isn't enough to keep my interest, and so I've abandoned BttF completely as well. The W&G joke of a Collectors DVD, Tales merchandise, Telltale staff belittling forum members and now BttF has made me lose faith in Telltale Games completely. I'm not buying anything else from them until old timers on these forums say it's worth it.

[Scnew]

I'm in the same boat, gonna be waiting on Jurassic Park, Kings Quest, Walking Dead, etc. reviews before I purchase now. Specifically reviews that don't sound like "I love it because it's Jurassic Park!!!" like we got with BTTF.

My overall gaming excitement level received a pretty big one-two punch these last few months with BTTF and Dragon Age 2 both disappointing the crap out of me.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Overture

Nah, solid tactics. I think they're relying on the good-will they've built up with other franchises. I don't think they expect to lose many gamers as a result of this. Let's face it, if you're a Sam and Max fan who loves BTTF and was disappointed with the BTTF season, you're not likely to boycott S&M Season 4, should it get made. ( Here's hoping )

Telltale has gone from being my favorite video game company to one that I believe is actually harmful to the genre in a matter of less than a year. A Walking Dead game by Telltale would, at one point, be something I'd pick up excitedly. Hell, ANYTHING by Telltale, something like CSI excluded, would be an instant buy for me due to the name recognition alone. Now, the name recognition brings to mind something I should actually avoid. Back to the Future: The Game is entirely unforgivable in my eyes.

[corruptbiggins]

Talk about over reaction.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

Talk about over reaction.

They made a....I don't even know how to describe it, a software product that you couldn't pay me to finish. How is not particularly wanting to buy from them anymore an "overreaction"?

[corruptbiggins]

Because that was just one series, one which that we knew ahead of time would be easier than the norm for the company. If out of 7 seasons of games there is only one that you don't like then that is still a hell of a good record for any company.

[Vainamoinen]

This discussion really doesn't need the flambé part.

TTG has created BTTF obviously catering for a wider target audience and has severely underestimated that it would be that much of a different target audience as well. So, yes, it is natural for a lot of long-term Telltalites to feel somehow cheated.

We can not be sure of much at the moment, but I think some positive as well as negative things are to be expected. I'll try to state these as objective as possible. It's hard.

• this is a learning experience for TTG as well (as has been stated). The treatment of following franchises will undoubtedly not be exactly "the same".
• Still, "BTTF the game" was and is a massive success. We must assume that its basic concept will at least not be "forgotten" for following franchises.
• Many adventure gamers will undoubtedly have issues with Jurassic Park, but we can not know how present these issues will be.
• Different franchises mean different target groups. TTG can not really plan to release King's Quest episodes with BTTF's marginal gameplay.

It's a little pretentious, but at the time, I expect the more popular franchises (movie/TV) to receive episodes with less gameplay. But I can't really judge from one franchise.

[Strayth]

I'm sorry, but you guys really should try out other "easy games".

NONE of them is as insulting as BTTF. Because when it's that easy, they at least GIVE YOU THE CHOICE on what to do. Lack of challenge doesn't mean it's "lame" by all means, no, sure it can be "too easy", that doesn't mean the whole game is broken and can't be enjoyable, like L.A. Noire and Heavy Rain, for instance. Or even Prince of Persia, you virtually can not die. Does it make it bad ? Well no, it's a good game, just a little short, and too easy. But the controls feel nice, it's beautiful etc... You can enjoy playing it, even if you think it's too easy.

BTTF is not interactive in anyway, you can't do anything.

Given the fact that it was done by fans (at TTG), and not random korean guys trying to follow the movies coming out, how in the world can BTTF be looked at a satisfying thing ?

The story ? The concept is nice, but too stretched out for a 5 part game, in the end the pacing is horrendous, and gets old too fast.

The overall writing ? That's just a joke. They use the "happy coincidence" trick almost EVERY TIME. That's just unbearable. That's lazy writing.

It relies way too much on the fans' indulgence. Yeah having Marty saying a few nice lines, and having Chris as Doc feels cool. Is this enough ? Couldn't we expect more from a game company that says is a) a fan of the adventure genre b) a fan of the movies ? As I said they're not random koreans that have no idea what the hell BTTF is.

Actually, there's nothing I could think that could be worst, if done by fans. Seriously ? What could be worst ?

The graphics ? It's already not in the top 50 of the recent games.

The story ? Seriously, I'm not gonna say it's "super super bad" or anything, but do you really think there couldn't be better with the base material ? They're pro writers, they had Bob Gale (which probably made them do that, they used his "concept" as a whole story for 5 parts... which is terrible), what they did is definitely the least you could expect. A smart way to continue their adventures ? "Oh Marty I'm randomly stuck in the past, my time traveling Delorean will track you through time wherever you are, then you can come to save me. Cauz you know, since you won't have any idea what I was up to, you surely won't screw anything in the past. Asking my family which knows much more about the time travel wasn't a possibility, of course. Oh and the Deloeran just got duplicated in the future, that's why there still is one." Oh ok then. I don't think any fan could actually come up with anything less believable.

The interaction ? Well we're nowhere near Chrono trigger nor Shadow of Memories, are we ? It's close to NONE. No interaction on the way you solve puzzles, no interaction over the story, and worst, sometimes no interaction on the order you "click on stuff" u_u ...

The gameplay ? ... There's absolutely no gameplay. The interface is horrible, Marty's walk cycle is so bad you can't believe it, and yet his run cycle is even worst. The camera angles makes it impossible to play smoothly with a pad, and the mouse control is just even more painful. Great job ! As for the puzzles solving, and getting the plot forward, it's "click that". Incredible.

The characters ? They just feel blank, they don't have much to say or repeat themselves way too fast. Just because they have a funny line once in a while doesn't make it "ok" in my opinion. You can't really know more about them, you can't really get things out of them ... You're forced to follow exactly what they want you to do.

The exploration ? Invisible walls, same areas over and over...

Can you honestly say they brought life to Hill Valley ? For a 2011 game ? Really ? Do you feel like in the movies when you suddenly can't cross this little path on the square ? Don't you think "exploring hill valley" would be more fun than that ? And that you could actually enter a few places instead of having Marty read the headlines all the time ?

The music ? Clearly, the composer that proved himself good enough already is not the problem, but by trying to be "too close" to the original, it just feels boring and repetitive. Worst, TTG re-use them way too much. In the end it's just "meh".

So really, what could be worst, given all they had ?

If "they needed more time" then why didn't they take it ? Obviously they should have realized something was completely wrong in the process. They delayed Jurassic Park to polish it, couldn't they do the same ? Though at this point, it's the game design that is completely flawed, but hey, at least they could have made it better and bug free.

BTTF is not just an insult to adventure games (Monkey island, Dott etc..) it's also an insult to easy interactive games (Blade Runner, L.A. Noire, Shadow of Memories etc...).

So yeah, unlike Star Wars, Dragon Ball, etc..., there aren't tons of BTTF games, so I guess it's harder to "not be a fanboy" with this game.

But though, just "getting a little more of something I like" is just not enough when I knew there were able to do MUCH more.

[SHODANFreeman]

Their games have been getting progressively easier and easier, and Jurassic Park actually looks like it will be LESS difficult than BttF, since it uses the same "keep clicking stuff until other stuff happens" gameplay but this time you can't even walk around.

Also, it's all but guaranteed that the game was primarily delayed because of the Xbox 360 deal, and that very little polish will actually be done.

We aren't mad because of one bad game, as I said their games have been getting easier and easier, JP is looking to be their worst yet, and they are beginning to have a history of lying, misleading, and practically outright screwing their fans over.

They've released an episode of 2 different game series that they have no intention of continuing on iPad (TDP and W&G). They announced and then apparently canceled the WiiWare version of Puzzle Agent without mentioning it to anyone, hoping people would just forget about it, I guess. They announced a Mac port of Wallace and Gromit and Sam and Max Season 1 ages ago, but apparently decided that no one would care about those. The Wallace and Gromit DVD was an absolute joke, no features to speak of, and online activation = why even bother ordering the disc other than to have something to sit on the shelf? The retail disc is almost better, in that it is DRM-free, but it comes bundled with a bug requiring you to delete certain files that it installs or the game is broken. The downloadable version of the first episode of Tales of Monkey Island featuring Earl Boen's performance was announced forever ago, and they seemingly have brushed that under the rug and forgotten about it at this point. The PC owners of The Devil's Playhouse don't get the Nutrispecs, not even on the DVD. Now we get two completely inexcusably simple games, one of which gets delayed at Microsoft's whim, followed by a blatant lie that the delay is to "improve" the game. It's cool that they refunded customers and gave them a coupon for a free game, but it's not enough to make up for their continual lying/misleading and their complete and total disregard for the fans that put them in the position they're in.

I used to buy everything they made, CSI included, for as many platforms as I could. For example, I own Sam and Max Season 1 for PC on their site, the retail edition, the XBLA port, and the Wii port. The only games of theirs I don't own are the newest CSI (only because I couldn't find anywhere to buy a retail copy of it for some reason) and Jurassic Park. I used to pre-order anything they ever announced, regardless of if I was interested in the license or not. At this point, I'm not buying a single game they release until they decide that they want to develop adventure games for their fans again. I don't give a crap if they want to include an easy mode so that morons can play their games, I just don't want to be lumped into the same game as one designed for incompetent fools to be able to complete, because that isn't enjoyable in the slightest.

[Vainamoinen]

Originally Posted by SHODANFreeman

they are beginning to have a history of lying, misleading, and practically outright screwing their fans over.

No.
And I really do not feel like going into details, as these are very obvious.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

No.
And I really do not feel like going into details, as these are very obvious.

Oh, cool story. My post has loads of details, and proof of their continuing ability to ignore their customers and make decisions based on their bottom line rather than doing right by their customers, and your reply is simply "No."

What a compelling argument.

[corruptbiggins]

I like how the people who don't like the game are posting long posts to justify their dislike whereas I feel I don't need to justify how I feel about a game. Not to your extents anyway.

[Strayth]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

No.
And I really do not feel like going into details, as these are very obvious.

He might be a little harsh, though some parts are true.

They are misleading, and they are not considering many of their fans (cancelled parts, various delays etc...) .

They might not be "dishonest" per say, but obviously are disrespectful in a way.

And then you get the obvious marketing advertisement that is completely lying about what the games actually are ;o .

I didn't like Sam and Max season 3, but it wasn't for the same reasons.

But with ALL the games they announced, I just don't see how good those can get. :/ If everything is as bad (or worst if what he said is true about JP) as BTTF, then I'm done with Telltale.

I like how the people who don't like the game are posting long posts to justify their dislike whereas I feel I don't need to justify how I feel about a game. Not to your extents anyway.

Well, we're pointing out what we feel is wrong so maybe it could be fixed in the future.

That's our, total right, and requires no judgement from you.