What you'd like to see in TTG's Kings Quest (merged threads)

[thesporkman]

The challenging puzzles, campy atmosphere, and terrible puns.

[GuybrushWilco]

The atmosphere, challenging and mostly clever puzzles, memorable characters and lots of cool locations. Of course I found the graphics impressive when I was a kid .

[Lambonius]

For me it was the feeling that you could literally go anywhere and do anything. Only Sierra games captured this for me, largely because everything within every screen was interactive, and would provide a response (if even a generic one) when clicked on. (Well, ok...KQ5 had the red X, but still.) This granted the games a feeling of exploration and discovery that was significantly more pronounced than in a Lucasarts game, which were a lot more narrative driven (not a bad thing, per se--I LOVED Lucasarts games and still do.) The added tension of "danger around every corner" made the games feel truly adventurous, too. Add in "mostly" clever puzzles and memorable characters and you have an experience that can't be beat!

[Blackthorne519]

I liked exploring - and interacting with the various screens. It was just fun to go to exotic locals - like, everytime I went to a new screen, it was fun to see what was there. It was always like "Oh, cool bridge" - "Can I swim in the lake?" "I wonder what's up with that tree?"... there was always so much to see and do.


Bt

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

wth are you on about?

love of nature? innocence rooted in earthiness? what does that even mean and how does it have anything to do with King's Quest?

and how can you say the lead characters in KQ have a total lack of guile? You're saying for Alex to turn Manannan into a cat shows lack of guile?

I must say this reaction surprised me. Why the anger?

Love of nature: Roberta Williams clearly loves unspoilt nature and this comes through in the games. Most of the games are set mainly outdoors and a lot of the interaction is with the very elements themselves. As a point of comparison, I see much less appreciation of or interaction with nature in the Monkey Island series. It seems to be more about human-made (or human-modified) environments.

Innocence rooted in earthiness: It is a very straightforward world. There is nothing deconstructive or postmodern about it. The heroes are extremely heroic. So it is innocent that way. But it is not idealised to the point of being clinical. (Except for King's Quest VII, which tried to be as Disney as possible.) I added the qualification about earthiness because innocence is not the same to me as mere tweeness or family-friendliness. It is not a particularly safe world and there are some very dark aspects to it: slavery, cannibalism, pushing old ladies into ovens...

Lack of guile and cynicism: I was talking about the stories as they are related to the audience, not the characters in the stories. Silverwolfpet asked what we like about the series, so I was talking about that. Of course I would not describe (all) the characters as guileless or uncynical.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by Simo Sakari Aaltonen

I must say this reaction surprised me. Why the anger?

Love of nature: Roberta Williams clearly loves unspoilt nature and this comes through in the games. Most of the games are set mainly outdoors and a lot of the interaction is with the very elements themselves. As a point of comparison, I see much less appreciation of or interaction with nature in the Monkey Island series. It seems to be more about human-made (or human-modified) environments.

Innocence rooted in earthiness: It is a very straightforward world. There is nothing deconstructive or postmodern about it. The heroes are extremely heroic. So it is innocent that way. But it is not idealised to the point of being clinical. (Except for King's Quest VII, which tried to be as Disney as possible.) I added the qualification about earthiness because innocence is not the same to me as mere tweeness or family-friendliness. It is not a particularly safe world and there are some very dark aspects to it: slavery, cannibalism, pushing old ladies into ovens...

Lack of guile and cynicism: I was talking about the stories as they are related to the audience, not the characters in the stories. Silverwolfpet asked what we like about the series, so I was talking about that. Of course I would not describe (all) the characters as guileless or uncynical.

This is a very good analysis actually. I'd agree with all your points. And I'd also agree that those are things that I like about the series, though I probably wouldn't have immediately thought to word it that way. Nice thinking.

[Blackthorne519]

Originally Posted by Simo Sakari Aaltonen

I must say this reaction surprised me. Why the anger?

Well, I can venture a guess - at first glace, your answer seemed to be some dreamy, hippie-sounding nonsense - as if you'd laid qualities on the game that it didn't merit. It was just your choice of wording; it was whimsical, light, ponderous and philosophical. Your follow-up explanation enunciated your points wonderfully, and it made me understand what you were going for - because honestly, I thought you were spouting flowery nonsense at first too.


Bt

[Irishmile]

The first one I played was KQ 6... it was an amazing experience for me... I then tracked down the other games... 1-5.. the 7 was not out yet.

I am a pretty big fan.. KQ6 and MI are what make me a really big fan of the genre.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Ah, okay. lol, I understand now.

I was just trying to say what I wanted to say briefly and concisely, but I guess I have to agree with you guys and say my first post was not concise, just opaque.

So my bad for that - and Chyron's bad for not asking more politely. (But hey, no hard feelings, Chyron. By the way, what would your answer to the original poster's question be?)

Lambonius and Blackthorne, thank you very much for your kind comments. Good to know my second attempt was more successful.

P.S. My comment about Monkey Island is not intended as a criticism. If it were, it would be unfair. MI is a humorous pirate-themed series. Everything about this premise leads naturally (pun not intended) to using a lot of human environments.

Nature is not very funny as such, but many human inventions are - or at least offer more scope for humour; piracy is obviously something that happens between people; and a series would surely run out of jokes fast if it did not rely mainly on human-made (or, again, human-modified) environments.

So it is just the nature of the beast, not a flaw.

[chucklas]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

It was just your choice of wording; it was whimsical, light, ponderous and philosophical. Your follow-up explanation enunciated your points wonderfully, and it made me understand what you were going for - because honestly, I thought you were spouting flowery nonsense at first too.


Bt

In a way, this embodies what makes KQ great. They are as Blackthorne put it, "whimsical, light, and ponderous." Not that everything is whimsical and light, but the series as a whole is. The stories revolve around fairytales and are just straight up fun.

[icedan]

I noticed we don't have a thread that generally covers this question.

I think what I would like to see:

a lot of explorable natural scenes, especially some that appear normal at first, but as you play around with the various natural elements, like a fallen log, or tree knot, or rock, you find that it's not so normal after all.

Commentary on most objects in each scene, I like to hear/read what the character says about non-important objects.

Natural sounds, like birds, ocean waves, etc.

2D graphics

Death scenes (perhaps you can do it like Monkey Island 1, where you die, but you bounce back humorously).

I haven't played Kings Quest V in a very long time, but that Wizard you meet at the start, I'd like to see him make a return, I'd like to be able to go back to that scene with his house too, that would be awesome.

[MusicallyInspired]

Really? I'm kinda more thinking that's all this forum has been about...lol.

[icedan]

Yeah, but it's scattered, I'm thinking we need a more compiled list. Come on, don't look like a troll, post something.

[Silverwolfpet]

Good idea, icedan. I've merged some threads so that more people can join in on the conversations.

[GuybrushWilco]

Here's a more succinct list of things I'd like to see in the game:

Deaths (with retry button maybe)
Fantasy world based on real world myths and legends.
More challenging puzzles then we have seen recently.

These are just things off of the top of my head .

[Lambonius]

A game world that doesn't feel like it is confined to 3 or 4 screens per episode, complete with puzzles whose solution isn't clicking on one of 3 or 4 hotspots on the screen, or clicking one of 2 or 3 inventory items on one of the aforementioned 3 or 4 hotspots.

[Datadog]

Originally Posted by icedan

Yeah, but it's scattered, I'm thinking we need a more compiled list.

I think the most common requests are:

-Death Sequences
-Graham as main character
-Numerous, challenging puzzles
-More Explorable Hot-Spots
-No Stylized Cartoon Graphics
-Fairy tale and myth-inspired situations and environments
-The feeling of a large open world

And a lot of God-I-Hope-Nots in terms of TSL-style fan-service.

[GuybrushWilco]

I should add that the game should have a narrator . That is something I feel was always important in most of Sierra's games.

[MusicallyInspired]

I've been mulling over what the underlying features and mechanics of what made King's Quest so appealing would be and have tried to organise my thoughts in this post. Besides the obvious "It's gotta be a fun fantasy adventure with lush storybook graphics and deaths lol!" point of view.

Each episode would have to cover a wide variety of areas. For instance, say KQ5 was a Telltale "season". The first episode would take place in the first main area (the town, dark forest, desert, wooded areas, etc). The second episode would be the snowy mountains, the beach, and sailing the ocean (though puzzles would have to be longer). And the final episode would be Mordack's island. Now, that's only 3 episodes, but honestly I'd rather have 3 long episodes than 5 short ones. And I wouldn't mind waiting longer either. But if it absolutely must be 5 episodes then trimming each one down a bit or cutting them in half would make a great 5-episode King's Quest "season". But there has to be a lot of areas to explore in each episode. You shouldn't have to wait for a new episode to explore somewhere that's in the same area as the first episode (the first areas of KQ5 being an example).

Some other things, the game shouldn't help you along. There should be one goal in mind (not many) as defined by the plot and introduction/story. The rest is up to the player on how to figure out how to reach the end of that goal by discovering obstacles and solving the puzzles of those obstacles. Take KQ1. What's the goal? Find 3 treasures. How? What do you mean how? That's the game. Figure it out! This is an adventure game! Take KQ4. What's the goal? Save your father by finding a magical fruit and try to help the fairy Genesta by getting her medallion back. How? Figure it out. Honestly, the stories of King's Quest weren't that complicated. There was just a lot of convolution in attaining the end goal because of the large world that was created. Solve one puzzle to solve another to solve another etc where everything is connected until you can move on to the next area of obstacles and repeat the process to reach that ultimate goal. I don't even think KQ7 or even MOE was that complicated story-wise. King's Quest really took the best of good (but simple) storytelling and excellent game mechanics to create the best gaming experiences I've ever had.

Take KQ5 again. What's the goal? Save your family. How do you do that? Well, Cedric flies you to Serenia and that's a large step closer but the fairy dust wears off. Crispin tells you that Mordack's island lies beyond the mountains. So how do you go beyond the mountains? There's a snake (a pooooisonous snake!) in the way. How do you get rid of it? Who knows? Come back to it later. You'll have to do some looking around. As you explore you discover new areas, items, puzzles, and characters with dilemmas that you must help them with. And you realise that you've got a lot to do before you can even think about going over those mountains because there's a whole realm of areas on this side of the mountain that holds some purpose yet. You solve each puzzle and help each character and get something in return for it all the while discovering solutions to puzzles you've seen previously because you didn't have the proper item before (the 'Aha! I can use this now!' moments, those were huge in King's Quest). Each solved obstacle lets you get closer and closer to the journey's end and the attaining the ultimate goal. But you figured it all out on your own.

The point in all this is there is no clear cut sign pointing you in the direction you have to go in King's Quest games beyond your own curiosity and ingenuity. All you have is a conflict/dilemma and a goal. The rest is up to you to figure out for yourself.

The game also has to feel dangrous. This is a large adventurous and perilous world. YOU are the character. You aren't PLAYING the character. So everything should feel dangerous around you. If you make a wrong step you pay for it. Because that's the way the world is. It adds to the realism and immersion. That's huge. Deaths as well as not being able to continue immediately before your death is crucial. Autosaves in certain areas would be fine I think, but "retries" are horrible for portraying this feeling of danger to your experience. A Restore/Restart/Quit window with autosaves that don't take place right before a death is the way to go in my opinion.

So to sum up:

-Only one goal in mind. Everything else you figure out on your own as you discover the world.
-The world has to be big and full of life and obstacles to get in your way to block you from that goal. Don't give the WHOLE world away all at once, but a lot of it. There has to be some excitement to see new areas, which is what puzzles like getting rid of the snake and fixing the boat in KQ5 were all about. Getting to that new area at last!
-The game has to be dangerous and cause real feelings of suspense, thrill, and excitement. There has to be a possibility of utter failure in the gaming experience if this is to work.

[Lambonius]

MusicallyInspired's post above should be required reading for any Telltale team member who is going to be involved in the design of this King's Quest game. Seriously. He just summed up EXACTLY what makes King's Quest games great.

Perfectly stated, dude.