When can we expect to see SOMETHING about Telltale's KQ?

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

Why does this kind of shit always devolve into a Jane Jensen/KQ6 vs The World discussion. It's tired. And old.

I could give a fart.

I want to know more about Tell Tale's King's Quest. TELL US MORE, TELLTALE.


Bt

It's what puts you into the corner of either liking what KQ was pre 1992 (Simple, fun, fairy tale inspired), or liking KQ6 and everything that comes as a result of it: All of it's smaller universe, Father, Black Society "everything is tied together" crap. It's the game that opened the door for all of the fan fanfiction crapola.

It's like the choice between the original Star Wars trilogy, and the "Special Editions" and Prequels.

[thom-22]

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

It's what puts you into the corner of either liking what KQ was pre 1992 (Simple, fun, fairy tale inspired), or liking KQ6 and everything that comes as a result of it: All of it's smaller universe, Father, Black Society "everything is tied together" crap. It's the game that opened the door for all of the fan fanfiction crapola.

Oh, so that's yooou sitting all the way over there in the corner. *waves*

Me, I'm milling around the vast open middle of the room liking all the KQ games (some more, some less, of course), feeling no need to choose between your two extremes, even though I have a preference toward one end.

I'd be willing to consider your criticisms of KQ6, even sarcastically/facetiously stated, but you go beyond plausible. I have to suspect that anyone who would call KQ6 "gritty" -- even in caricature -- doesn't really know from gritty. I don't even think of Gabriel Knight as gritty; dark, sure, but the GK stories were still fairly romanticized. (I only played the first two, so if the third was indeed dark and gritty, then ignore what I just said, LOL.)

And while I agree that some of the fanfiction is crapola, I really don't see why KQ6 should take heat for that. Blame the authors if it's crap.

[MusicallyInspired]

KQ6 was totally fun and fairy tale inspired as much as any other King's Quest before it was. Also, I don't like a story TOO simple. KQ1 and KQ2, for instance, were way to simple. KQ3 was getting better but still could have been a lot more fleshed out. KQ4 is when it finally started getting there. KQ5 and KQ6 were the pinnacle.

Even KQ7 has that feeling of a great adventure/journey, the same as KQ5 has. And not only that, we get to experience TWO characters' journeys instead of just one! Yeah, some of the areas were visited twice over, but it was still interesting to see how the two of them finally ended up on the same path again. It just wasn't done nearly as well as KQ5. And the horrible animation was just annoying and distracting. So it lost points.

MOE had one of the best adventure premises of them all! So many areas and locales to visit! If it didn't have so much combat and contained more puzzles it'd be right up there with KQ5 for me. I still enjoy it, however. And more than KQ7.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

MOE had one of the best adventure premises of them all!

See, this is where you lose me. If this is were true, then the premise and implementation are still so disparate from each other that I just can't come anywhere close to agreeing that MoE is a proper adventure (nor King's Quest) game.

[MusicallyInspired]

I never said it was an adventure. I said it had great potential as an adventure PREMISE (as in the story set up). And I even explained it. You go on a journey to many different locations on this vast quest which culminates into a showdown with the most powerful nemesis the world of King's Quest has ever seen. If the game WAS developed as an adventure it would have been a great one. I'm not arguing that the implementation wasn't equally great. But it could have been. Just because it wasn't doesn't mean the potential wasn't there. That's all I'm saying.

[blueskirt]

It's what puts you into the corner of either liking what KQ was pre 1992 (Simple, fun, fairy tale inspired), or liking KQ6 and everything that comes as a result of it: All of it's smaller universe, Father, Black Society "everything is tied together" crap. It's the game that opened the door for all of the fan fanfiction crapola.

That would have happened even without King's Quest VI.

[MusicallyInspired]

A fair point.

[Blackthorne519]

I fucking hate this conversation.


Bt

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by blueskirt

That would have happened even without King's Quest VI.

Not really. KQVI introduced the "Black Cloak Society" and "Shadrack". It introduced the slim possibility that all the villains and thus all the games could be tied together. That inclination made the KQ universe much smaller. It's like saying Darth Vader invented C-3PO or Boba Fett's father was killed by the Jedi or Greedo and Anakin Skywalker were friends as kids. It makes the game universe and all the potentials much more limited. Why does every bad event and character have to be tied together? Are there no villains who are just standalone villains? And the fans have run with the "Black Cloak Society/Shadrack was behind everything" idea ever since despite neither the BCS nor Shadrack even being mentioned in the last two games nor being part of Roberta's conception of the series.

Basically, KQ6 is a game that really isn't a Roberta Williams KQ. It had only a basic storyline provided by her with bare minimum oversight as she was on vacation in Spain for much of it's development. She didn't even know the idea of a Black Cloak Society or any organization like it had made it past idle discussion before she left for Spain. She didn't know it made it into the final game. When KQVI was in development, Roberta at first felt she was done with KQ, and wanted to only be a creative consultant.

KQ7 is credited to Lorelei Shannon, but Roberta was apparently working on both KQ7 and Phantas at once and also was the driving force behind the game's entire concept (two heroines, Disney direction, art direction, bringing Edgar back, etc). KQ8 despite corporate meddling was still enough of her vision that Roberta after negotiations put her name on it, because all the basic and important ingredients she wanted were there, just with some parts cut out for budget and time.

I just view KQ6 as "KQ meets Jane Jensen", similar to the way TT's KQ will be "TT meets KQ." Basically Jane Jensen's take on the KQ series. I don't like it just as some won't like TT's take on the series. If you want to be REALLY technical about it, KQ5 was the last "pure" KQ game in that it was the last KQ game which was a 100% Roberta product with no co-designer nor any executive meddling.

[Chyron8472]

Why are you blaming fan-made games' additions on KQ6??

The fan-games would do whatever they wanted to "augment" the franchise for themselves, no matter what KQ6 had or had not introduced.

It's not like blaming the prequels on the Original Trilogy. It's like blaming the books on the Original Trilogy.

Oh, sure. Let's blame George Lucas because some author writes something preposterous in their books when Lucas had no part in writing it. Stupid.

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

KQ5 was the last "pure" KQ game in that it was the last KQ game which was a 100% Roberta product with no co-designer nor any executive meddling.

By this standard, neither Empire Strikes Back, nor Return of the Jedi are "pure" Star Wars movies because they have different directors who are not George Lucas himself. Again, stupid.

edit: Also, My Little Pony:FiM isn't "pure" MLP; the new Thundercats show isn't pure ThunderCats; all Star Trek beyond what Rodenberry was directly (and only) involved in making is not "pure" Star Trek; and Curse of Monkey Island is not Monkey Island 3...

I could go on, but I think I made my point how stupid you are sound.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

I fucking hate this conversation.


Bt

BALLS.

How about we engage in some friendly thread sabotage?

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

Why are you blaming fan-made games' additions on KQ6??

The fan-games would do whatever they wanted to "augment" the franchise for themselves, no matter what KQ6 had or had not introduced.

It's not like blaming the prequels on the Original Trilogy. It's like blaming the books on the Original Trilogy.

Oh, sure. Let's blame George Lucas because some author writes something preposterous in their books when Lucas had no part in writing it. Stupid.

By this standard, neither Empire Strikes Back, nor Return of the Jedi are "pure" Star Wars movies because they have different directors who are not George Lucas himself. Again, stupid.

edit: Also, My Little Pony:FiM isn't "pure" MLP; the new Thundercats show isn't pure ThunderCats; all Star Trek beyond what Rodenberry was directly (and only) involved in making is not "pure" Star Trek; and Curse of Monkey Island is not Monkey Island 3...

I could go on, but I think I made my point how stupid you are sound.

The whole concept of all the fan games is that every single game is tied tightly together via Shadrack/The Black Cloak Society. All of the fan games being of darker tone, with a more grounded storyline and smaller universe stems from KQ6's interpretation of the series in that it has a tighter storyline and is darker and has the conspiracy element with the Vizier and from the offhand mentions of Shadrack and the Black Cloak Society. It comes directly from there.

Also, It's not really stupid if you've ever read anything about how Star Wars was conceived. Originally George wanted Star Wars to be a fun, light sort of adventure serial--Like Flash Gordon. Nothing more or less. He thought the series could go on as a bunch of loosely connected adventures forever. He wrote and directed the first film, and it was a terrible, stressful experience, so he handed the writing and directing duties to others. Over the next few years, working with several writers, he came to realize he had painted himself into a corner with Luke's father and Vader. Having Luke's father be separate from Darth Vader became redundant from a narrative perspective, because in essence, Luke's father (before his father became Vader) was just another noble older Jedi. In the original script for Empire, you have Yoda teaching Luke with the ghosts of Obi Wan and his father aiding him. And he realized that was redundant and so created the dramatic twist of Vader being Father Skywalker.

The rest of the stuff he left up to the script writer and the director; He had a very hands off approach with Empire. Less so with Jedi but again he was forced into a corner. His original loose idea was for 12 films: The prequel trilogy, the middle trilogy (Luke's adventures) and a sequel trilogy. In the sixth film, Vader would be killed. In the prequel trilogy, the Emperor would be introduced and defeated and "The other" mentioned at the end of Empire Strikes Back would turn out to be another Jedi who was in hiding. Lucas realized he couldn't do twelve episodes. He was worn out, his marriage was collapsing, most of the principal actors were worn out, so he condensed the 12 movies into six and shoehorned Leia in as Luke's sister. She was NEVER intended to be his sister.

As to the other examples you gave, I don't watch any of them and never really could get into Monkey Island so I can't comment. I just think Roberta was the heart of KQ. The only person who I feel could take the reigns fully from her is Josh Mandel. Lorelei Shannon pretty much followed Roberta's direction to the letter so it's basically the same product we would've gotten anyway. I just don't like Jane Jensen's conception of KQ and I'm glad it only lasted for a single game.

[blueskirt]

Not really.

Yes really. This crap happens all the time, every time, everywhere, in every universe that has fanboys and fangirls. Fans don't need a sliver of possibility to tie everything up, invent crackpot theories and get things wrong, they do it all the time, if you think otherwise, you clearly haven't visited enough fan communities.

I fucking hate this conversation.

So do I, and believe me, if I could poop a new screenshot or gameplay preview, I'd do it just for you. But I can't. Maybe it'd be better if we just remove this forums from our bookmarks and come back when the real news are posted.

[wilco64256]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

BALLS.

How about we engage in some friendly thread sabotage?

The question is - If you derail a thread that was already derailed does that get it back on track? Not to be confused with two wrongs making a right however.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

I wonder when we'll see or hear something substantial about Tell-Tale's King's Quest game.


Bt

[techie775]

Originally Posted by chyron8472

lol

[BagginsKQ]

Already happened;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza

[Blackthorne519]

Hahah, Chyron FTW there.


Yeah, I tried to thread sabotage this by getting it back on track, instead of this stupid, redundant debate about King's Quest VI, VII... yada yada......


I guess we've just speculated for over a year now, and I have absolutely no inkling as to how Tell Tale is going to proceed on this one. Will it be much like their own previous adventure games, or are they going to try something different with King's Quest?

I just don't know, and it's driving me bonkers.


Bt

[blueskirt]

Telltale aren't idiots, they know King's Quest's fanbase consist primarily of adventure games fan, not movies or TV fans and they'll give us that. Gameplay wise, I suspect it will be a lot like Tales of Monkey Island, with the possibility of dying.

I suspect a deeper gameplay might be possible if we talk less about Jurassic Park and Walking Dead and more about Tales Of Monkey Island, what it did right and wrong, what we'd like to see more of and what was missing from that game. Otherwise, I fear Telltale will settle for Tales gameplay rather than aim for the better gameplay of Secret of Monkey Island.

So yeah, from now on, more analysis of Tales Of Monkey Island, and less stupid debates about King's Quest VI, Jane Jensen, dead ends, Graham's jim jams color or which King's Quest has the stupidest puzzle. Time to enlighten Telltale about what made adventure games great, before they're done with The Walking Dead and start working on King's Quest. If we're lucky they'll work on Fable next and we'll have more time to steer their design in the right direction.

[Anakin Skywalker]

You'll end up getting a game with BTTF's game play and Jane Jensen inspired storytelling. Expect Mordack to be Graham's half brother or something and characters like Morgelien or whatever.