What are the key elements to a KQ game?

[Anakin Skywalker]

What makes a KQ game a KQ game for you?
What are the vital "ingredients"? What is needed to get the proper atmosphere of KQ?

Let's try to define KQ as objectively speaking as possible. What are vital elements of the story? The subplots? The characters? The gameplay? The experience in total? The musical cues/style?

What are some KQ "Rules" in your opinions? Like rules that a KQ game shouldn't go outside of, or neglect in order to be a "real" KQ game.

For example, some consider non-violence (except with the main villain or sub-villain) a key part of KQ, which is why KQ8 is considered by many to be not a "true" KQ. For other's it's a must that a member of the Royal Family be involved.

What is KQ to you, in esssence?

[MusicallyInspired]

The story isn't very vital to King's Quest at all. Anything beyond "a land in peril, and you're the hero who saves all" is deeper than anything KQ has ever done. I mean, it's gotta have something interesting as a premise, conflict, and a goal to grab you, but anything with any deep plots or twists is going overboard. KQ was never about in-depth storytelling to me. It always seemed to promote a great gaming experience above all else.

Beyond that, just what's been repeated countless times before: deaths, play as a member of the royal family (preferably Graham), (very) challenging puzzles, interactivity with pretty much everything you see in multiple ways (look, use, talk), inventory item combination (like Monkey Island), and not so many conversational puzzles or much conversation at all (besides narrator dialogue). King's Quest wasn't very talky...certainly not in a puzzle sort of way. There were never any conversation options in any of the KQ games as far as I can remember (besides the AGDI remakes). But hey, anything to make the game a little more challenging. Also, a large countryside area to explore is paramount. Hopefully this can be done effectively in episodic format.

There should be characters (and animals?) for you to help along your journey. It gives the feeling of making good karma for yourself and blessing your immensely perilous journey...sometimes in KQ this does in fact help you in the future. Like helping the eagle in the snowy mountains in KQ5 (he later rescues you from an impossible to escape situation). Another thing is multiple solutions to a puzzle. Some that help you less. Some that are more moral routes of thinking and give you a higher score in the end, which brings me to another thing: score. If the classic "0 / 140" score style is too "hardcore" maybe something like Conquests of Camelot would suit things better. Having a certain rating of different character actions by the end of the game. How ethical you were and so on.

But at the end of the day just give us stuff to DO and not just make us sit around in the same 3 screens talking and have all the puzzles handed to us without a fight. King's Quest was hands-on, get your feet wet and your hands dirty adventure kind of work! A lot of (inter)action, doing things, exploring, and puzzle-solving. Which is why a large exploratory world is so important.

My thoughts.

[caeska]

• Deaths

• Compelling story involving the royal family

• Multi-icon interface

• Narrator

• Large world to explore

• Evil wizard/witch to defeat

• Large number of cosmetic objects to comment on, not everything has to be pertinent to the story

[thom-22]

What MusicallyInspired said. I'd especially emphasize the "large countryside area to explore". I liked that much of the time, the environment in King's Quest was continuous. You signed on for a whole journey. Sure there were bird-powered trips and magic carpet rides and magic maps. But very seldom were you taken from one place to some other entirely different place via a cut-scene.

Originally Posted by caeska

• Large number of cosmetic objects to comment on, not everything has to be pertinent to the story

I think this point about interactions that don't directly advance the story is too often phrased awkwardly. It's not about interaction for interaction's sake; it's not just cosmetic. The feedback you get from such interactions should contribute to the atmosphere of the game-world. Moreover, they should be incorporated into puzzle design. Something said in a description of one hotspot can provide a subtle, even necessary clue to a puzzle elsewhere. You need a great deal of this descriptive material so that the clues don't stand out like sore thumbs. The further spread out the puzzles and the information needed to solve them -- the more deeply they're embedded in the game-world -- the more satisfying it is to progress in the game. It's like this has become a lost art, replaced by Hints features. (The recent trend toward making Hints features part of the entertainment of a game absolutely sickens me, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.)

[MusicallyInspired]

Well stated.

[DAISHI]

I always felt a lot of King's Quest was 'ground up', in the same sense that a Metroid Prime game was. Information about the world you inhabited was constructed on a lot of observation rather than a lengthy block of lore or exposition.

[thom-22]

When I said "... a great deal of this descriptive material..." I wasn't implying that individual lines of dialog should be lengthy; in fact, they shouldn't be. I was referring to the number of lines, which was huge in the KQ games, at least the later ones.

In a quick glance, I found 9 different (all short) lines of dialog using the "eye", and 5 unique responses for "hand", in the very first screen alone of KQ5 -- a screen on which there is nothing you're required to do. There are at least 10 different lines of dialog for "eye" on the first screen of KQ6, all of which give unique responses when clicked with "hand". Now multiply that by the number of screens and factor in inventory items. A huge number, all enriching the game-world, supporting the story, and fueling our ideas for further exploration. You need the character's or narrator's eyes and not just your own observation to tell you that the weird thing is Crispin's whatchamacallit and about the undertow on the beach.

I suppose the modern, cinematic way to start KQ6 would be a cut-scene emphasizing the relevant information in lieu of all that bothersome interactivity: your ship's fucked up, the ocean has an undertow and, by the way, there's a plank you need to look under.

[caeska]

Originally Posted by thom-22

In a quick glance, I found 9 different (all short) lines of dialog using the "eye", and 5 unique responses for "hand", in the very first screen alone of KQ5 -- a screen on which there is nothing you're required to do. There are at least 10 different lines of dialog for "eye" on the first screen of KQ6, all of which give unique responses when clicked with "hand". Now multiply that by the number of screens and factor in inventory items. A huge number, all enriching the game-world, supporting the story, and fueling our ideas for further exploration. You need the character's or narrator's eyes and not just your own observation to tell you that the weird thing is Crispin's whatchamacallit and about the undertow on the beach.

Don't forget that the talk icon also has a unique response for almost all those objects again. For example, if you try to talk to the rock, the narrator says "The rock remains silent, as it has been for ages past".
That's the kind off thing that really enriches a game, and I also agree with you in that the narrator is needed to provide vital information, like the undertow, the deadly spiders and all those poisonous snakes.

[thom-22]

Originally Posted by caeska

Don't forget that the talk icon also has a unique response for almost all those objects again.

Not in KQ5 on that first screen, except with Cedric. And then I forgot to try "talk" when I looked at KQ6 yesterday. But, yeah, definitely. I like having "talk" separate, because sometimes (or always, actually) you want to "eye" somebody before talking to them. And there have been occasions -- not necessarily in KQ; I can't recall the specific instances -- where using "hand" (or something like "push"/"pull" in Lucasarts' nomenclature) on a character is needed to solve a puzzle. Added complexity.

[Beacon80]

If there was ever a time for Tell Tale Games to leave the episodic model, I think now is the time. I'd much rather have one giant world to explore than four or five smaller ones.

That being said, we have seen episodic King's Quests before. KQ7 is the most blatant about it, but King's Quests 4 and 5 could be broken into episodic elements with very little impact to the game itself. AGDI's version of King's Quest 2 is fairly episodic as well.

So I'd be okay with something similar to KQ4 or KQ2: Redux. Give us a giant land to explore that all the episodes take place in, with each game taking place later in the day, causing the world to change in subtle ways, and a different goal for each episode.

[Valiento]

Actually even KQ2, KQ3 and KQ6 can be divided into chapters.

KQ2 is fairly obvious, three splits at the magic door, with the search for the three keys, and then the travel to the enchanted realm.

KQ3 has several linear 'chapter-like' sections, Llewdor, the pirate ship, the beach and mountains, and finally Daventry and Cloud Land.

KQ6 had hidden chapter triggers (as the developers described it), certain actions opened up new areas in the game locked out others. The earliest for example is obtaining the magic map, triggers the nightingale and partial access to the islands. These 'chapters' are seamless so the player's don't realize they unlocked the next portion of the game.

Even KQ8 is more or less chapter based with it's linear progression. There are only a couple of puzzles/side quests that require back tracking!

[orangefan13]

The old Kings quest always went with the typing lines.

Kings quest 4 is a good example. Just upgrade to a newer look.

A big Big area that unfolds over time. Certain houses, and places that you can't go in. Not a small area like the new Monkey Island series. Stick to one Big World.
Quiet Old towns and sacred places. Not a large populated city(although it would be interesting if they went that route for a small section of the game). Of course a offworld or two.

Corny jokes, some tough puzzles and some easy ones and of course suprises. Lots of stuff to play with to think you will get a breakthrough when your stuck. Having only one awnser and one puzzle to move on can really slow things down.

Stick to the old things that made Kings Quest Great. Maybe they will get rights to Space quest, Police Quest. or Quest for glory some day.
Would love to see Telltale get a chance to make games like the old Final Fantasy 1-10, or the Chrono triggers someday. That would be awesome!

Am I alone in saying Telltale has helped saved gaming???
I Love the simplicity and traditionalism that is telltale. Try to give us those homestyle 1990's early 2000 looks before gaming became so evolved. The only other games I can stand to play are the titan quest, torchlight, diablo types with a few exceptions. For me most Adventure and RPG games are to three dimentional, complicated, multi button complicated, and time consuming now adays.

[Lambonius]

*Holds up finger and opens mouth to speak, but thinks better of it and stays silent*

[jonasaa]

I think most people here quite agree. We want it big, difficult and not like games are today. It's a bit of nostalgia, but also a need for challenge. ;-)

[Quasi Stomach]

I agree with Beacon that I would like to see multiple episodes take place in the same large world. It could be different times of day, a whole year apart, or even different eras. I personally liked seeing Daventry again in KQ3 in its poor state. I'm also partial to the Kurosawa/Tarantino style of storytelling, which could lend itself to KQ episodes.

I also agree with several of the items other people brought up.

Devilishly difficult puzzles (with possible, easy alternate solutions)

Story developed while playing rather than exposited by the narrator (story not to overshadow exploratory gameplay)

Non-quest-related items/locations for atmosphere and clever hints

I think this needs to be mentioned, because I don't recall reading it in previous posts, but the mixed-up fairy tale/folk stories is essential. I also like the fact that folklore and even other games were referenced just for fun. I think that is also very important.

[MusicallyInspired]

Excellent sum up. Nice and concise and including everything King's Quest should have (except deaths).

[DAISHI]

Man I just want a dang scene of a village in the background that I can't possibly get to but that is oddly enticing as a lore item!

[Blackthorne519]

Heh. I like that - the village you can see, but can't get to - that's a great little red herring.

Bt

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

Heh. I like that - the village you can see, but can't get to - that's a great little red herring.

Bt

Like that?

Nothing is explained or even mentioned about that village. Nothing about the bridge, or the huts, or the people who live there. It's just there and you can NEVER, EVER get to it. And it looks intriguing.

Or how about:



Hundreds of miles of a snowy landscape beneath you, leading to what seems to be a river of ice running under a chain of mountains. A truly beautiful, intriguing vista...And you can never, ever reach it or know what lies beyond it.

[Anakin Skywalker]

I've had an opinion brewing for several years now. I feel that King's Quest should be something much larger than it is and ever was--That a King's Quest game shouldn't be a series limited to the Royal Family of Daventry, or even to Daventry itself. It shouldn't be a series limited to the Adventure Genre, either.

What do I mean by this? Well, I look at worlds like those of Dungeons & Dragons, or the world of JRR Tolkien and I see worlds full of almost unlimited potential for stories, intriguing characters and exciting adventures. No single kind of story dominates the worlds of Tolkien or the world of D&D--Middle Earth is a place where ANYTHING can happen; So is the world of Faerun in Dungeons & Dragons' Forgotten Realms setting.

There are so many stories spanning so many epochs, genres, varying in tone from dark and dreary, to light and happy; From creepy dungeon crawls, to grand epic adventures.

Consider the vast variety of material in The Silmarillion alone, to the sweet, simple Hobbit, to the deep, methaphorical Lord of the Rings. Consider the many realms in Middle Earth, the hundreds of stories, the multitude of characters and legends.

Or consider the Forgotten Realms. You have a planet called Toril, a continent called Faerun and several other large continents; Within those continents, dozens and dozens of countries; Within those countries, the detail contained in the source guides depicts hundreds of cities, towns, hamlets and the like, thus giving room for endless amounts of stories.

Why shouldn't KQ be this way? Why should King's Quest be limited to just four characters in a very specific timeline?

I think the KQ Universe should take on a life of it's own, in the same way that the Forgotten Realms, or Middle Earth did. We should get to more about the lands of the world of Daventry and be able to experience adventures through the eyes of royals of the other lands.

KQ, IMO, should not just be bound to the adventure genre. It can be an adventure game, sure, but it shouldn't be trapped in that one box. There's so much potential in the world Roberta created that there should be room for everything. Why should KQ play by a very narrow and specific set of rules?

This was Roberta's own framework for what made a King's Quest game:

"The components that make a King's Quest are (in my mind, anyway and since I am the creator of the series, I guess that holds some weight):

1) A land, or lands, of high fantasy;
2) fantasy creatures from myth, legends, and/or fairytales both good and bad
3 situations to be found in those same types of stories
4) a "quest" type story; a calamity in the land with one "hero" to "save the kingdom"
5) a story of the "good" hero against the "evil" bad guy
6) a story that everyone can relate to, i.e., a "reason" for having the hero go out and risk his or her life for "saving the kingdom"
7) interesting worlds to explore
8) high interactivity
9) interesting characters
10) great animation
11) great visuals and music.

Within that general framework, I feel that I can have some "leeway" to accomplish those tasks."

As you can see, Roberta's own framework was not that tightly bound--rather loose really, allowing for a whole variety of Quests.

I don't see why, for example, we can't have a KQ prequel showcasing the adventures of John the Wanderer, or maybe a side-story about King Edward's adventures, or the adventures of some King from another land, or a story about King Graham's adventures when he was just Sir Graham.

I think the KQ universe should be all encompassing, like the universes of Middle Earth or the Forgotten Realms. If someone wants to design a KQ6 style KQ, go ahead; If someone wants to design a light hearted, Disney-esque KQ ala KQ7; the door is open; If someone wants to make Mask of Eternity II; Excellent.

KQ shouldn't just be limited to a very strict set of rules. It limits the series and curbs it's potential.