Will Mask of Eternity be Canon?

[Beacon80]

I try not to be the guy crying "This game sucks! It shouldn't be canon!" I only bring this up because Roberta Williams left Sierra in frustration after she made this game, so she might not consider it canon, and if anyone could say "This didn't happen" and have it stick on an official level, it's her.

I tried playing the game when it came out, and I never made it through. It's not a King's Quest game at all, but rather a First Person Shooter, and, IMO, not a good one.

I'm playing through the games again in preparation for TTG's new entry, and I'm curious to know if I should force myself through Mask of Eternity, just to get the full story.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

I think it deserves to be canon. Roberta never actually said she wanted it eliminated from canon, to my knowledge. For another thing, it does nothing with long-lasting consequences for the royal family, so it is not a big headache in that sense, either.

The description First-Person Shooter confuses me, because unless one specifically switches to first-person view, the action is depicted from a third-person view with a roving camera and point-and-click manipulation of the environment.

[Beacon80]

I phrased that poorly (and have edited it). I don't know if Roberta ever said how she felt on the game being part of canon or not. It wouldn't surprise me if she disowned it, but I don't really know one way or the other.

And you're right, it was a third-person, over the shoulder shooter. It's an important distinction, but it doesn't change my point here.

Ultimately, I'm not trying to say "It shouldn't be canon!" I'm just wondering if it is, because if there was any game in the series that would be struck from canon, it would be MoE. In short, I care less about what the answer is and more about simply getting an answer, regardless of what it is.

[TheChosen]

I never liked the idea of throwing things out of the canon because it wasnt popular enough.

However, Im more curious to know if Silver Lining will be accepted as canon.

[chucklas]

Originally Posted by TheChosen

I never liked the idea of throwing things out of the canon because it wasnt popular enough.

However, Im more curious to know if Silver Lining will be accepted as canon.

Cesar Bittar (TSL director) has come forward and said that it shouldn't be considered canon, and I think the large majority agree. It is fan fiction, nothing more.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by Beacon80

And you're right, it was a third-person, over the shoulder shooter. It's an important distinction, but it doesn't change my point here.

Lol at this terribly inaccurate description. Haven't you ever heard of a video game genre called action adventure?? You know, those games that typically are played from a third person view and have the player character navigating a 3D environment killing enemies and solving rudimentary puzzles, often with light platforming elements thrown in? They predate the "third-person, over the shoulder shooter" genre by at least a decade.

And as for Roberta considering MOE canon--do a little research. She's publicly defended the game on numerous occasions, including defending the controversial development choices to push it more towards the action adventure genre. She considers it canon, period.

[Beacon80]

No need to get so defensive. If you like Mask of Eternity, that's fine. I was merely pointing out that a lot of people, myself included, feel that it didn't mesh with the rest of the series in a lot of different ways. I had heard rumors that Roberta Williams wasn't pleased with the result. The only official responses I can find are interviews done around the time of the release, and quite frankly, I can't tell one way or the other if she's just being professional and supporting Sierra in these. So I thought it was worth bringing up. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

I apologize for mis-categorizing a game I haven't played in 12 years.

[Valiento]

Actually Roberta herself was one of the games staunchest defenders when it came out (though she was openly admitted to some things she would have liked to have added to the game). She never really commented on the KQ series as a whole after that. Basically started avoiding the public and retired.

I think last time she commented on KQ, MOE or earlier games was 2001/2 and she pretty much stopped public interviews after that (she has only recently commented on the fan games).

An it's not a shooter it's a hack and slash action adventure. Though you can use a projectile weapon. Gameplay has more in common with diablo than doom.

Over half the enemies are impervious to projectile weapons anyways, requiring the hacking and slashing.

Yes, I would personally recommend playing through it if you can, although the bugs make that a chore. There are alot of great ideas in the game, and the story is cool (personally I'd say one of Roberta's best). But unless you know how to get past the glitches the game can become annoying.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

What kind of glitches, Valiento? I have completed the game at least four or five times over the years and had very little trouble. There may have been some crashes, but not even sure about that.

[Valiento]

Basically lock-ups (on certain cut scenes) and crashes (usually when exploring certain levels) on some machines. Then if you go to reload, it has to reload the levels again. Some levels are more unstable than others.

Save often.

[Beacon80]

I'm currently on 3 (one of the best in the series, IMO) of my replay, but I'll try to come at it with a fresh perspective.

I apparently am over-remembering the ranged combat in the game, although my biggest problem was the simplicity of the "puzzles." I seem to recall them amounting to little more than fetch quests. That and when my brother used some cheat codes to try to just get the story, he found even with the codes, some of the jumps were immensely frustrating.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Yes, the jumping over lava fields etc. was my least favourite part of the game. I felt the control method was not precise enough to allow for much accuracy.

[Valiento]

Ya I suppose some of the puzzles are fetch quest like. More so than the fetch quests in earlier KQ games.

I think one of my problems with KQ7: TPB was a similar issue, were puzzles that felt like simplified fetch quests (you are given requests to find something by another character). MOE may have drawn on that (it also has a similar single icon interface). For example the spells, where you have to find three ingredients in order cast the spell.

My least favorite were the box and box jumping puzzles.

I like some of the physics based puzzles though, where you literally got to interact with the environment like cutting a tree down, or freeze water with ice arrows to make a rod/switch.

[Lambonius]

Ken Williams has discussed Mask of Eternity a few times on the various Sierra community forums--most recently on the Pheonix Online Studios board here: http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/...topic=9190.120 (scroll down--user name is kenwilliams).

[doggans]

The official King's Quest games have never been extremely continuity-heavy. They probably won't bring it up much one way or the other, much like TOMI didn't bring up "Escape" much.

[BagginsKQ]

The only thing I'd 'expect' to see if Roberta had continued it, would be that Connor would become a reoccuring character. Probably a full time knight of Daventry, in the vein of young Sir Graham (there are already allusions to him being a knight of Daventry in KQ8 already).

But he'd just be another hero, to be cycled around around 'every other game', like Alexander, Rosella, and Graham were used. According to Roberta, in one interview, Connor kinda became the replacement for Alexander, since his story had essentially been told (he got his girl, and moved to another country). Graham had already received quite a few stories already. Rosella (and Valanice) had a story in the previous game.

Future games wouldn't have been reference heavy, much in the same as previous games weren't reference heavy. Except for the occasional nod to a previous adventures. But 'current' adventure would probably have been stand alone.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by doggans

The official King's Quest games have never been extremely continuity-heavy. They probably won't bring it up much one way or the other, much like TOMI didn't bring up "Escape" much.

This.

[Olaus Petrus]

I haven't heard any reason why MoE shouldn't be considered as part of canon. Neither Roberta nor Sierra has ever claimed that it's uncanonical, so therefore it must be part of official canon.

And when it comes to action elements, also the first 4 games have those. Although in first 4 you can't defeat your opponents, but you must run to the nearest edge of the screen. Very annoying if you happen to be at the middle of the screen when monster appears.

Originally Posted by Valiento

Ya I suppose some of the puzzles are fetch quest like. More so than the fetch quests in earlier KQ games.

I think one of my problems with KQ7: TPB was a similar issue, were puzzles that felt like simplified fetch quests (you are given requests to find something by another character). MOE may have drawn on that (it also has a similar single icon interface). For example the spells, where you have to find three ingredients in order cast the spell.

My least favorite were the box and box jumping puzzles.

I like some of the physics based puzzles though, where you literally got to interact with the environment like cutting a tree down, or freeze water with ice arrows to make a rod/switch.

Personally I thought that some of those puzzles, like the one with ice arrows, were much better than puzzles of KQ7, which IMO was way too easy compared to rest of the series. My biggest issue with MoE wasn't fighting, but that it had too few puzzles compared to time which you spend running around. But then again it's a rather common problem with early 3D adventures, the maps are simply too big and too empty.

[BagginsKQ]

And when it comes to action elements, also the first 4 games have those. Although in first 4 you can't defeat your opponents, but you must run to the nearest edge of the screen. Very annoying if you happen to be at the middle of the screen when monster appears.

There were also timer puzzles... Where you had to do an action fast enough, or you would die... These were bad on faster machines.

My biggest issue with MoE wasn't fighting, but that it had too few puzzles compared to time which you spend running around. But then again it's a rather common problem with early 3D adventures, the maps are simply too big and too empty.

Reminds me of this;

When we started working on the project, we first started by designing Daventry, and ended up with this huge map, and Connor wandering around this big area, with pretty much nothing to do in between the puzzles, and that in connection with Roberta's story, I started recommending lets add things like combat, and health items, and things like that, to give us more things to fill out the world, and to keep the player involved in between the puzzles. ...and so we came up with this very simplistic combat system that I don't think gets in the way of the story, its a very easy to grasp, click on the guys, until he is dead, diablo-like combat. I felt it really added to the system."

-Mark Seibert, Talkspot part 2, December 1998.

[AdventureGamer]

I don't think eight should be canon, but neither should seven.