Telltale Games

Johnny Walker · 05/19/2007, 04:31 pm

Ok, after all the complaints here on this forum about difficulty levels and how the other episodes have been "too easy" (especially the early ones), I'd have to say that Episode 6 was a definite return to the "old skool", edge-of-logic, 'I'm completely stuck' territory.... Is this what people wanted?

I personally think it was too hard. It didn't spoil the game for me because I knew it was the end of the Season and I was up for anything, but if all the games had been that hard, I don't think I would have bothered. Wandering around being stuck, randomly trying things, is NOT fun (I'm sure Dave Grossman would agree). I ended up looking at hints on this forum about three times... Simply because I couldn't be bothered being stuck any longer.

I didn't notice that the bowling ball was resting on a "spoon" for instance. It made sense to me to use Bosco's "Earthquake Maker" to knock the bowling ball onto the switch... except Sybil wouldn't buy the US. Maybe scare her with the rat? Maybe scare Bosco's Mother with the rat? No.... I got completely stuck.

The same goes for Max's stomach (although the solution was pretty ingenious) and the final "battle"... (I needed the hint to sabotage another trick whilst being on another).

So, what did everyone feel about this new difficulty level? Did anyone here actually complete the game without looking at ANY hints? Do some people wish that all the episodes were this hard... or do many people think that this one was just a little too much?

LuigiHann · 05/19/2007, 04:59 pm

The only thing that bugged me was the final puzzle, which was just a bit frustrating due to the constant moving from one trick to another. Everything before that seemed fairly straightforward and logical to me.

*Jennifer* · 05/19/2007, 05:19 pm

I completed the game without looking outside of the game for hints. I used Max for hints several times though.

It's not because I didn't want outside hints, though. I went to go look on the forum for hints, but there were none at the time I looked (as I got the game from GameTap on the day of release). So I was forced to actually change my way of thinking about puzzles. That's the thing about the game. As hard as some of the puzzles were, all of them made logical sense.

Christovsky · 05/19/2007, 05:29 pm

I haven't used a hint for any of the games, and have never even considered it. I haven't been stuck very often, although when I do it's a welcome opportunity to actually think about the puzzle for a bit and explore the game a bit more, which isn't boring because it inevitably reveals a few jokes I'd missed before. I still say make it harder!

Sounds like you took the right approach with the bowling ball - you had an idea and pursued it. I actually thought precisely the same thing as you about the earthquake maker to begin with, but when nothing you try works it can be a sign to come up with another inspiration, not stick stubbornly to an incorrect one.

I don't pretend to understand people who want an interactive movie out of Sam and Max. To me, that may as well be a matter of clicking to see the next scene for all the thought it entails. Puzzles make the game more entertaining, and hard puzzles make it more rewarding. The thing is, no-one who jumps to the walkthrough every time they get a little bit stuck is ever going to get the hang of solving more difficult problems, so kick the habit and if you don't enjoy the interactive element in the first place, stick to the cartoons and comics.

All hail Max · 05/19/2007, 05:35 pm

I've played Hit the Road so I was used to using that kind of logic. The trick is to try everything that has even the slightest chance of working. If you can do it, do it! You also have to make sure that you have seen everything that is on the screen. It was still much easier then the original game because there were less locations.

Johnny Walker · 05/19/2007, 05:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by All hail Max

I've played Hit the Road so I was used to using that kind of logic. The trick is to try everything that has even the slightest chance of working. If you can do it, do it! You also have to make sure that you have seen everything that is on the screen. It was still much easier then the original game because there were less locations.

This isn't really "problem solving" though, is it?

Armakuni · 05/19/2007, 05:49 pm

Being stuck in an adventure game is part of the fun. That's the challenge in adventure games, if the puzzles aren't hard, then they're not really games at all.. more like interactive storybooks.

Gamers have grown too impatient these days

You should never bother to play any of the old-school classic adventure games, if you think Episode 6 is too hard, I can guarantee you that they would frustrate you to no end (especially the Sierra ones)

Mel · 05/19/2007, 06:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armakuni

Being stuck in an adventure game is part of the fun.

Maybe for some (not me usually).

Armakuni · 05/19/2007, 06:12 pm

I meant for myself, I can't speak for everyone obviously

Personally I need challenge in a game, pretty much regardless of the genre. If I can just walk through a game without any real obstacles, I don't consider it much of a game. Of couse it might very well be a good story but that's pretty much it.

I hope they make the next season even harder than Episode 6.

Christovsky · 05/19/2007, 06:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armakuni

Gamers have grown too impatient these days

Absolutely! If people don't want to think, they shouldn't play a game with puzzles in it. Playing games you enjoy makes more sense than changing those you hate until they agree with you.

Mel · 05/19/2007, 06:21 pm

Well, when I am going through a time where my mental energy is being expended on other things, I don't typically play adventure games. What I loved about the first season is that the games were shorter and weren't super hard. I've been struggling to finish full length games as of late because when I do get stuck or when I get busy, they get put aside but it hasn't happened with the Sam & Max episodes (and they've been a great way to do something non-science related).

*Hero1* · 05/19/2007, 06:37 pm

I didn't think episode 6 was difficult. When I did get stuck I explored the world, found some new jokes and eventually set out on the right path. Why do people go to walkthroughs the moment they get stuck? Are you in a rush to complete the game in 1 day? I mean we don't have a new episode for atleast 6 months.. Why wouldn't you actually try and figure it out. All the puzzles were well designed and well though out. If you put the time in to figure it out, I'm sure most people would eventually solve it. That was bad luck you didnt notice the bowling bowl was on a spoon, but that was not a problem with the puzzle. I saw that, and figured it out straight away. Max's stomach again I don't know if its the way I think when I play a sam and max game but the solution came right to me. The final puzzle took me a while, but I didn't have a problem with that.

Johnny Walker · 05/19/2007, 06:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero1

Why do people go to walkthroughs the moment they get stuck?

I hope you're not referring to me. You'll note that I only completed Episode 6 today.

Hmmm, there's quite a lot of strong personalities in this thread, I wonder if a more anonymous Poll would have been better!

Mel · 05/19/2007, 06:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero1

Why do people go to walkthroughs the moment they get stuck? Are you in a rush to complete the game in 1 day? I mean we don't have a new episode for atleast 6 months.. Why wouldn't you actually try and figure it out.

I don't need to be told how I should play a game I bought with my money. If I choose to use a hint or go to a walkthrough, it's my business. I didn't know there was a rule book on the proper way to play an adventure game. You play them the way that will give you the most satisfaction and let others do it their way.

*Hero1* · 05/19/2007, 06:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Walker

I hope you're not referring to me. You'll note that I only completed Episode 6 today. Hmmm, there's quite a lot of strong personalities in this thread, I wonder if a more anonymous Poll would have been better!

No that was just a general comment on people who rush to the walkthroughs for adventure games..

Alucard · 05/19/2007, 06:55 pm

I didn't think Episode 6 was too difficult. It was more difficult then the first couple of episodes though which is nice to see.
I want to see games that are even more difficult. (it might be the length of the episodes which make them seem too easy since they are over quickly)
Episode 5 was still my favourite

**Jake** · 05/19/2007, 07:27 pm

Johnny you're aka ATMachine, right? Or do I have you confused with someone else?

*Hero1* · 05/19/2007, 08:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel

I don't need to be told how I should play a game I bought with my money. If I choose to use a hint or go to a walkthrough, it's my business. I didn't know there was a rule book on the proper way to play an adventure game. You play them the way that will give you the most satisfaction and let others do it their way.

Alll I was doing was asking a question

ThomasMink · 05/19/2007, 09:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero1

I didn't think episode 6 was difficult. When I did get stuck I explored the world, found some new jokes and eventually set out on the right path. Why do people go to walkthroughs the moment they get stuck? Are you in a rush to complete the game in 1 day? I mean we don't have a new episode for atleast 6 months.. Why wouldn't you actually try and figure it out.

I can't speak for everyone.. but in my case it's stubbornness. I usually start with an idea or two (or more, who knows).. and if they don't work, well.. I tried. Apparently I didn't try hard enough, and I'm not willing to try harder. Doesn't stop my enjoyment of the game any.

That being said.. this happened thrice with ep6. Bit more than I would have liked (only once for the rest of the season), but.. I still enjoyed it well enough.

I'll shrug off any comments I receive in return. I admitted to my stubbornness.. which also means.. no matter what anyone says in response, I won't change. Pointless even trying to get through my thick skull.

**Jake** · 05/19/2007, 09:00 pm

*hoses off thread with cold water*

View Poll Results: How did you find the difficulty of Episode 6: The Bright Side of the Moon?
Perfect! I wish all the episodes were this difficult.	32	64.00%
A tad too hard! I think they went a little too difficult in this episode.	10	20.00%
Too easy! I want the puzzles to be even more difficult!	8	16.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

05/19/2007, 04:31 pm	#1
Johnny Walker aka ThunderPeel2001 Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 98	Difficulty level of Episode 6 Ok, after all the complaints here on this forum about difficulty levels and how the other episodes have been "too easy" (especially the early ones), I'd have to say that Episode 6 was a definite return to the "old skool", edge-of-logic, 'I'm completely stuck' territory.... Is this what people wanted? I personally think it was too hard. It didn't spoil the game for me because I knew it was the end of the Season and I was up for anything, but if all the games had been that hard, I don't think I would have bothered. Wandering around being stuck, randomly trying things, is NOT fun (I'm sure Dave Grossman would agree). I ended up looking at hints on this forum about three times... Simply because I couldn't be bothered being stuck any longer. I didn't notice that the bowling ball was resting on a "spoon" for instance. It made sense to me to use Bosco's "Earthquake Maker" to knock the bowling ball onto the switch... except Sybil wouldn't buy the US. Maybe scare her with the rat? Maybe scare Bosco's Mother with the rat? No.... I got completely stuck. The same goes for Max's stomach (although the solution was pretty ingenious) and the final "battle"... (I needed the hint to sabotage another trick whilst being on another). So, what did everyone feel about this new difficulty level? Did anyone here actually complete the game without looking at ANY hints? Do some people wish that all the episodes were this hard... or do many people think that this one was just a little too much?

05/19/2007, 04:59 pm	#2
LuigiHann Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,659	The only thing that bugged me was the final puzzle, which was just a bit frustrating due to the constant moving from one trick to another. Everything before that seemed fairly straightforward and logical to me. __________________ "I think it's the idea that counts, not the actual method. As long as you set out to cause a horrible death through insects eating the person, you're good." - apenpaap

05/19/2007, 05:19 pm	#3
Jennifer Poker Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Inventory Posts: 1,874	I completed the game without looking outside of the game for hints. I used Max for hints several times though. It's not because I didn't want outside hints, though. I went to go look on the forum for hints, but there were none at the time I looked (as I got the game from GameTap on the day of release). So I was forced to actually change my way of thinking about puzzles. That's the thing about the game. As hard as some of the puzzles were, all of them made logical sense. Last edited by Jennifer; 05/19/2007 at 05:24 pm.

05/19/2007, 05:29 pm	#4
Christovsky Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 207	I haven't used a hint for any of the games, and have never even considered it. I haven't been stuck very often, although when I do it's a welcome opportunity to actually think about the puzzle for a bit and explore the game a bit more, which isn't boring because it inevitably reveals a few jokes I'd missed before. I still say make it harder! Sounds like you took the right approach with the bowling ball - you had an idea and pursued it. I actually thought precisely the same thing as you about the earthquake maker to begin with, but when nothing you try works it can be a sign to come up with another inspiration, not stick stubbornly to an incorrect one. I don't pretend to understand people who want an interactive movie out of Sam and Max. To me, that may as well be a matter of clicking to see the next scene for all the thought it entails. Puzzles make the game more entertaining, and hard puzzles make it more rewarding. The thing is, no-one who jumps to the walkthrough every time they get a little bit stuck is ever going to get the hang of solving more difficult problems, so kick the habit and if you don't enjoy the interactive element in the first place, stick to the cartoons and comics. Last edited by Christovsky; 05/19/2007 at 05:31 pm.

05/19/2007, 05:35 pm	#5
All hail Max Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 37	I've played Hit the Road so I was used to using that kind of logic. The trick is to try everything that has even the slightest chance of working. If you can do it, do it! You also have to make sure that you have seen everything that is on the screen. It was still much easier then the original game because there were less locations.

05/19/2007, 05:49 pm	#7
Armakuni Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Amigastan Posts: 966	Being stuck in an adventure game is part of the fun. That's the challenge in adventure games, if the puzzles aren't hard, then they're not really games at all.. more like interactive storybooks. Gamers have grown too impatient these days You should never bother to play any of the old-school classic adventure games, if you think Episode 6 is too hard, I can guarantee you that they would frustrate you to no end (especially the Sierra ones)

05/19/2007, 06:12 pm	#9
Armakuni Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Amigastan Posts: 966	I meant for myself, I can't speak for everyone obviously Personally I need challenge in a game, pretty much regardless of the genre. If I can just walk through a game without any real obstacles, I don't consider it much of a game. Of couse it might very well be a good story but that's pretty much it. I hope they make the next season even harder than Episode 6.

05/19/2007, 06:21 pm	#11
Mel Rowr! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 834	Well, when I am going through a time where my mental energy is being expended on other things, I don't typically play adventure games. What I loved about the first season is that the games were shorter and weren't super hard. I've been struggling to finish full length games as of late because when I do get stuck or when I get busy, they get put aside but it hasn't happened with the Sam & Max episodes (and they've been a great way to do something non-science related). __________________ “I do not at all understand the mystery of grace - only that it meets us where we are but does not leave us where it found us.” - Ann Lamott http://hikergirl.tumblr.com

05/19/2007, 06:37 pm	#12
Hero1 conclusion jumper Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: melbourne, australia Posts: 1,766	I didn't think episode 6 was difficult. When I did get stuck I explored the world, found some new jokes and eventually set out on the right path. Why do people go to walkthroughs the moment they get stuck? Are you in a rush to complete the game in 1 day? I mean we don't have a new episode for atleast 6 months.. Why wouldn't you actually try and figure it out. All the puzzles were well designed and well though out. If you put the time in to figure it out, I'm sure most people would eventually solve it. That was bad luck you didnt notice the bowling bowl was on a spoon, but that was not a problem with the puzzle. I saw that, and figured it out straight away. Max's stomach again I don't know if its the way I think when I play a sam and max game but the solution came right to me. The final puzzle took me a while, but I didn't have a problem with that. __________________ Patience is a sharp razor to swallow...

05/19/2007, 06:55 pm	#16
Alucard Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 482	I didn't think Episode 6 was too difficult. It was more difficult then the first couple of episodes though which is nice to see. I want to see games that are even more difficult. (it might be the length of the episodes which make them seem too easy since they are over quickly) Episode 5 was still my favourite

05/19/2007, 07:27 pm	#17
Jake Telltale Team Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,843	Johnny you're aka ATMachine, right? Or do I have you confused with someone else?

05/19/2007, 09:00 pm	#20
Jake Telltale Team Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,843	hoses off thread with cold water

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