Kinect Star Wars - Are you KIDDING me?

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by St_Eddie

Have fun dancing like a tit to the image of the Empower getting jiggy with it! Meanwhile, I'll be playing something that's not a total embarrassment.

For the record, I don't like this game and would never play it. Also, I have been seen hating on the prequels and the SE's at length around here before.


However, I do very much enjoy the original Original Trilogy. I have identified possible reasons for this being that Lucas either listened to other people back then or else had other people direct the second and third movie, or both.

Star Wars isn't shit for the masses. George Lucas just once discovered he had created something people liked and decided to milk the hell out of it. He also has absolutely no idea why people liked the original Original Trilogy in the first place.

[St_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

For the record, I don't like this game and would never play it. Also, I have been seen hating on the prequels and the SE's at length around here before.


However, I do very much enjoy the original Original Trilogy. I have identified possible reasons for this being that Lucas either listened to other people back then or else had other people direct the second and third movie, or both.

Star Wars isn't shit for the masses. George Lucas just once discovered he had created something people liked and decided to milk the hell out of it. He also has absolutely no idea why people liked the original Original Trilogy in the first place.

As you touched upon, the success (artistically, not commercially) of the original trilogy of Star Wars falls into the hands of people other than Lucas. Most notable amongst these people is producer, Gary Kurtz, who left following the release of The Empire Strikes Back because he was displeased with Lucas' desire to use subsequent films in the series to market merchandise, at the expense of artistic integrity.

It's a fucking sham that Lucas takes all of the credit for Star Wars when he's a talentless hack, whose only skill lies in marketing. He can not write above the general level of a 13 year old, he can not direct with any more competence than your average director for an episode of Home and Away and he cares not for telling a good yarn; he cares only for money.

Seeming as it is now Lucas who soley calls the shots when it comes to Star Wars, is the reason why I say fuck Star Wars. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be; fuck George Lucas.

Originally Posted by Gary Kurtz, on why he ended his collaboration with George Lucas following the release of Empire

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by St_Eddie

Don't be daft! Lucasfilm are supposed to be the gatekeepers of the franchise's credibility. Fans are not. End of!

Terminal Reality made the game, and worked under license from LucasFilm Licensing. The carbonite freezing chamber *does* look like a cheesy dance floor when you think about it in the right lighting, and Lobot wears what look like giant DJ headphones, which is why he DJs the song.

So let me get this straight: The problem is that it's unilaterally wrong to take advantage of the look of a Star Wars setting to make a cheesy musical parody if you have the consent and aid of LucasFilm Licensing. That is NEVER OKAY.

Got it.

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

This game could have successfully made fun of Star Wars through its dance-off if:

1) It made it blatantly obvious that this game is a an attempt at humor and should not be considered legitimate Star Wars material.

-Dancing minigame
-In a Kinect game(whose marketing is mostly casual)
-In which Han Solo dances to a slightly altered version of a popular song
-In a dance club version of the Carbonite freezing chamber
-With Lobot as DJ

So, what, you see this as being taken absolutely seriously, and are thus C-level canon that probably happened if you can find a place where a cut occurs during which a dance-off could have happened.

...I have no words.

[Alcoremortis]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

So, what, you see this as being taken absolutely seriously, and are thus C-level canon that probably happened if you can find a place where a cut occurs during which a dance-off could have happened.

No, no. See, Dashing, this happened right before Han was frozen. I mean, here they all are in Cloud City, everyone is kinda miserable, and then Lando suggests an impromptu dance party! Sadly, Vader shut it all down in a rather frigid way... but not before he stole the idea as a welcome back party for the emperor!

I just wish someone would tell Palpatine that wiggling his hips does NOT work for him.

[St_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

...I have no words.

You're not the only one! I have no words for how you could possibly defend uber-stupidity. You can't win 'em all, hey?

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by St_Eddie

You're not the only one! I have no words for how you could possibly defend uber-stupidity. You can't win 'em all, hey?

I don't see where the line of indefensibility is, especially when your core logic doesn't really work. Now, it's entirely possible that you don't care for the Robot Chicken episodes considering your overall tastes and thoughts on the franchise, in which case everything is at least internally consistent. But if you *do* like the Robot Chicken implementation and don't care at all for the Kinect Star Wars one, then your logic of LucasFilm being the stewards of the franchise simply falls apart. You have to explain why one musical parody that takes advantage of the look of a Star Wars setting is any worse than any other musical parody that takes advantage of the look of a Star Wars setting.

The very start of this thread starts off with a declaration that enough is said simply by showing me this thing, but I don't think 'nuff is said. What in the world separates this from everything else? What's the line that is crossed that I'm supposed to be angry about? Because the line between near-universal acclaim and near-universal outrage seems thinner than a length of twine to me, and the only major difference I can see is that people have decided as a collective to contextualize this particular thing as "bad", while literally denying any need to qualify what actually makes it bad.

[St_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

I don't see where the line of indefensibility is, especially when your core logic doesn't really work. Now, it's entirely possible that you don't care for the Robot Chicken episodes considering your overall tastes and thoughts on the franchise, in which case everything is at least internally consistent. But if you *do* like the Robot Chicken implementation and don't care at all for the Kinect Star Wars one, then your logic of LucasFilm being the stewards of the franchise simply falls apart.

Yeah, I don't like Robot Chicken. So, um... yeah.

Even so, I don't think that you can compare the two. Kinect Star Wars is not meant as a parody. It's supposed to be a gaming experience which allows the user to step into the Star Wars universe. The reason there's a dancing section isn't because they're doing a parody, it's because the developer is limited by the Kinect technology and had to shoe-horn in that section.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that the dancing section is supposed to be interpreted as canonical or anything but to claim that Kinect Star Wars is a parody is giving way to much credit to the developer and to Lucasfilm/LucasArts. It's simply a colossal failure. Do you really think that the dancing section is supposed to be a parody?! It's meant to be a fun, "cool" and "hip" experience. It fails.

The very fact that people are laughing their asses off at the game shows just how much it fails to achieve its own goals. Gamers are laughing at the game, not with it; there's a difference!

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

-Dancing minigame
-In a Kinect game(whose marketing is mostly casual)
-In which Han Solo dances to a slightly altered version of a popular song
-In a dance club version of the Carbonite freezing chamber
-With Lobot as DJ

So, what, you see this as being taken absolutely seriously, and are thus C-level canon that probably happened if you can find a place where a cut occurs during which a dance-off could have happened.

...I have no words.

The dance-off is the only activity in the game that could overtly be considered a parody (from what I've seen of the other activities.) As such the entire game is not unilaterally comedic-based. Also, as I previously mentioned how reviled The Holiday Special is, it would seem to me entirely possible (and if GL is involved, entirely probable) that the charm, resulting from the tongue-in-cheek aspect, of this activity may have occurred completely by accident.

GL has made bad SW stuff before. There's no reason to assume that this dance-off is not a continuation of the creation of said bad material that itself just turned out somehow to be amusingly campy instead of mind-numbingly awful.

[lattsam]

Okay, and another thing... whenever you perform moves, and the game tells you "GOOD" or "AWESOME", the messages usually appear over the player character's crotch.

Why? I mean, they have a lot of places to place those messages, like at the top of the screen... the bottom of the screen... maybe the side... why the freaking crotch?!?!!

I swear the developers are insane!

[Darth Marsden]

...maybe it's because it's smack dab in the middle of the screen where people are most likely to look?

[St_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Darth Marsden

...maybe it's because it's smack dab in the middle of the screen where people are most likely to look?

Also, I can't speak for everyone else but I always stare at the crotch area of Darth Vader and Han Solo anyway. In fact, I couldn't tell you what their faces even look like but I could describe their crotches in great detail.

[Secret Fawful]

Davies, you're wrong and there's nothing wrong with the dancing. It's catchy and fun. And Davies is wrong. Except about Star Wars being overrated. You're totally right there. It fails at being hip but it doesn't fail at being fun and cool. Who wants to be hip anyway.

There should have been some Stayin Alive dancing though. Where Luke throws his robe and it flies back and hits him in his bitch face.

Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Darth Marsden

...maybe it's because it's smack dab in the middle of the screen where people are most likely to look?

And putting it over the torso or the knees, which at most would be maybe an inch or so of difference, would make the placement of such notifications inconvenient to look at?


EDIT: the argument about certain movies ruining the artistic integrity of film annoys me. There can be films that are artistic; there can be films that are fun; there can be films that are both simultaneously. I think there are probably people here who may tire of my mentioning certain movies I have seen which won awards for their artistry which I found to be absolutely terrible.

I will not agree that the original Original Trilogy is overrated, however I will concede that there are a hundred or more ways to prove that it, and Indiana Jones, is almost entirely unoriginal.

[St_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

Davies, you're wrong and there's nothing wrong with the dancing. It's catchy and fun. And Davies is wrong. Except about Star Wars being overrated. You're totally right there. It fails at being hip but it doesn't fail at being fun and cool.

There should have been some Stayin Alive dancing though. Where Luke throws his robe and it flies back and hits him in his bitch face.

Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

You're wrong about me being wrong.

On second though, perhaps I'm wrong about you being wrong about me being wrong.

Nah, I'm wrong to think that I'm wrong about you being wrong about me being wrong.

[Secret Fawful]

Right. Honestly, its awkwardness is what makes it great. It's awkward and geeky and I love it.

[Jennifer]

If they would have licensed Staying Alive for the dancing minigame, they definitely would have had to have Guybrush as an unlockable character.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by jennifer

if they would have licensed staying alive for the dancing minigame, they definitely would have had to have guybrush as an unlockable character.

dlc?

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by St_Eddie

Do you really think that the dancing section is supposed to be a parody?! It's meant to be a fun, "cool" and "hip" experience. It fails.

The very fact that people are laughing their asses off at the game shows just how much it fails to achieve its own goals. Gamers are laughing at the game, not with it; there's a difference!

THIS IS SERIOUS YOU GUYS. Lobot is an awesome hip DJ!

...I just don't get how people are saying this is meant to be taken seriously. The freezing chamber floor rises up like some stereotypical overly showy 90s musical number. The chamber looks like the cheesiest dance floor you can come up with. The Lobot headphones joke is used. The carbonite smoke is used for dance floor smoke effects. There is a fucking Death Star disco ball in the background. The songs use the "Yankovic" model of song parodies. One of the songs is a fucking version of the YMCA song talking about how great it is to be conscripted into the Imperial military.

Now of COURSE they put a dancing minigame in because they could. Because the Kinect has somewhat limited functionality and the best-selling games and the most "successful" games in terms of implementation have been dancing games. But the way they go about it is entirely tongue-in-cheek and I can't see how you can take all these things together and still think that you're not "supposed" to laugh at it.

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

The dance-off is the only activity in the game that could overtly be considered a parody (from what I've seen of the other activities.) As such the entire game is not unilaterally comedic-based.

Got it. Comedy cannot exist adjacent to non-comedy. It's like antimatter.

GL has made bad SW stuff before. There's no reason to assume that this dance-off is not a continuation of the creation of said bad material that itself just turned out somehow to be amusingly campy instead of mind-numbingly awful.

George Lucas didn't "make" this any more than he "made" KOTOR, TIE Fighter, the Robot Chicken special, or the EU books and comics. He was apparently "move involved" in The Force Unleashed, but other than that the games and other EU material seems to be just stuff he signs off on to get a check.

[DAISHI]

Has anybody mentioned the awesome Star Wars gangsta rap from the early days of the interwebz?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij4w7ChpuaM

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

Got it. Comedy cannot exist adjacent to non-comedy. It's like antimatter.

All I'm saying is that GL's track record with bad SW material speaks for itself enough for me to assume that he may have had some part in the camp. Heck, when the idea of this game was first pitched, it is entirely possible that GL could have had the initial idea of a dance-off.

George Lucas didn't "make" this any more than he "made" KOTOR, TIE Fighter, the Robot Chicken special, or the EU books and comics. He was apparently "move involved" in The Force Unleashed, but other than that the games and other EU material seems to be just stuff he signs off on to get a check.

According to Spielberg, he didn't directly "make" Indy 4 either, but he still put his fingers in that pie often enough to get interdimensional aliens involved.


GL has made bad stuff before so it is not beyond reason to assume the camp-factor may have been in part his idea; and because said "bad stuff" has previously come off more as terrible rather than amusing, it is conceivable it is more likely amusing in a way that, for GL's part, is miraculously successful rather than unfortunately fail.

Robot Chicken (and Seth Green) has had success at intentionally campy/silly humor prior to this. Star Wars has not. (those cosplay dance-off events don't count.)



EDIT: I suppose what I'm really trying to come around to saying in the end is this:

Originally Posted by St_Eddie

fuck George Lucas.