Telltale Games

Kazal · 05/05/2012, 05:07 pm

First off a “congratulations” is due to the team behind the game. I think they have a good thing started with the first episode. I wish them continued success and I cannot wait to enjoy the rest of the episodes.

I had question/statement of sorts for the team. I don’t expect/need/deserve a direct reply but it’s just something for them to think about. In the comic series one of the draws for me was the psychological and racial aspect the comic plays on. I enjoy art that does not shy away from racial questions or situations.

With that said I bought the game not expecting so much a racial aspect but I was certainly drawn to the physiological aspect and even more to the “choose your own adventure” model the team had deployed. I am thoroughly pleased. I physically smiled when as the game started I realized the main character is black. I could go on a tangent about how thrilled I am and how dismayed I am that I do not see it more often, but this is not a college paper so I will simply say “Thank you” for adding that bit of diversity.

In saying that, I was not at all surprised in seeing the interactions between Larry and Lee in which Larry calls Lee “boy” twice. (At least from the options I picked) I am not making a complaint, I completely understand it. I am curious of Lee’s reaction to that insult. As a man in his late 30’s highly educated and living in the south he should understand and have more of a reaction to such a term. I am curious why his reaction looks to be a mixed of hurt feelings and confusion. I am not expecting him to get violent and belligerent but I hope that he stands up for himself more in future episodes.

That’s it, that’s my “gripe” if one can call it that. Other than that I am well pleased with the product and I eagerly await future episodes. Thank you for reading.

What does the community think about this?

CapnJay · 05/05/2012, 05:15 pm

I have thoughts on Larry for the Does anyone else hate larry thread but i'm hesitant to bring them up yet

*Irishmile* · 05/05/2012, 05:25 pm

I think Lee is smart enough to know that issue was probably not best to address at that moment... Maybe it will come up again..

Lee and Larry are both alpha males and it will be interesting to see them struggle for leadership of the group.. Even if Lee doesn't want the title .. he will not let someone else do it if they are making horrible choices.

There was a lot of subtle character development going on .. At least that is what I got from it.

Kazal · 05/05/2012, 05:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnJay

I have thoughts on Larry for the Does anyone else hate larry thread but i'm hesitant to bring them up yet

I would be excited to hear anyone's thoughts on the Larry & Lee dynamic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishmile

I think Lee is smart enough to know that issue was probably not best to address at that moment... Maybe it will come up again..

Lee and Larry are both alpha males and it will be interesting to see them struggle for leadership of the group.. Even if Lee doesn't want the title .. he will not let someone else do it if they are making horrible choices.

There was a lot of subtle character development going on .. At least that is what I got from it.

Yeah that sounds about right. It's just that I really like the Lee character and I hope he stands up for himself, and does not get run over in such a classless way. But if I read the tea leaves in the preview for the second episode right I think Larry dies.

Xirsche · 05/05/2012, 05:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazal

I would be excited to hear anyone's thoughts on the Larry & Lee dynamic.

Yeah that sounds about right. It's just that I really like the Lee character and I hope he stands up for himself, and does not get run over in such a classless way. But if I read the tea leaves in the preview for the second episode right I think Larry dies.

Lee replies however the player wants him to. So if the option to stand up to Larry is present, then by all means, push it.

CapnJay · 05/05/2012, 05:52 pm

I'll post my opinion on Larry in his thread which i call my Adrenaline into the debate

Im_The_Foreman · 05/05/2012, 06:14 pm

I don't understand the original post, because Lee openly advocates murdering Larry in half of the dialogue choices. The premise of the post is that Larry doesn't have strong enough response options, that's clearly wrong

Also not everyone of the same race has to react in the same way to sharp language.
The choices need to be consistent with the characters mentality and nature.

Kazal · 05/05/2012, 09:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Im_The_Foreman

I don't understand the original post, because Lee openly advocates murdering Larry in half of the dialogue choices. The premise of the post is that Larry doesn't have strong enough response options, that's clearly wrong

Also not everyone of the same race has to react in the same way to sharp language.
The choices need to be consistent with the characters mentality and nature.

I'm sorry that I was not clear enough for you. In the start of the dialogue with Larry I know that he is advocating hurting or in your words "murdering" Larry. It seems though to be in reply to the protection of the group and not for any action or words aimed at Lee himself.

I thought you said you didn’t understand my post? The premise was not that he did not have strong enough options to reply. It’s that he had no reply at all. To look hurt and confused (IMHO) was not a realistic response. I feel at this point I would be repeating myself from my first post. I think it’s best that a re read of my initial post to fully understand my feelings.

His hard replies were not in defense of himself but in defense of the group. (from my play through) But again it was only a note and suggestion.
It’s all MHO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xirsche

Lee replies however the player wants him to. So if the option to stand up to Larry is present, then by all means, push it.

Noted. I would have picked harsher replies to Larry but for the situation in Lee standing up for himself, especially towards the end there were not many. I understand where you are coming from.

Xirsche · 05/06/2012, 09:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazal

I'm sorry that I was not clear enough for you. In the start of the dialogue with Larry I know that he is advocating hurting or in your words "murdering" Larry. It seems though to be in reply to the protection of the group and not for any action or words aimed at Lee himself.

I thought you said you didn’t understand my post? The premise was not that he did not have strong enough options to reply. It’s that he had no reply at all. To look hurt and confused (IMHO) was not a realistic response. I feel at this point I would be repeating myself from my first post. I think it’s best that a re read of my initial post to fully understand my feelings.

His hard replies were not in defense of himself but in defense of the group. (from my play through) But again it was only a note and suggestion.
It’s all MHO

Noted. I would have picked harsher replies to Larry but for the situation in Lee standing up for himself, especially towards the end there were not many. I understand where you are coming from.

Well, at this point in time, the way I see it is Lee is a convicted felon, but his reasons for doing what he did, bludgeoning a corrupt senator who was supposedly *raping* his wife, then killing her as well in a blind rage, thinking she instigated it. And so I don't think he initially has any intent to kill Larry as of yet. I think that, however, choosing to threaten or tell Kenny to hit him, pretty much siding with Kenny, will be a stepping stone to having a later choice for such a thing..such is the way of character and plot development.

Kazal · 05/07/2012, 10:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xirsche

Well, at this point in time, the way I see it is Lee is a convicted felon, but his reasons for doing what he did, bludgeoning a corrupt senator who was supposedly *raping* his wife, then killing her as well in a blind rage, thinking she instigated it. And so I don't think he initially has any intent to kill Larry as of yet. I think that, however, choosing to threaten or tell Kenny to hit him, pretty much siding with Kenny, will be a stepping stone to having a later choice for such a thing..such is the way of character and plot development.

I got the vibe he killed the senator but his wife lived. I also figured it was a blind rage type thing and not a premeditated event as I am sure the state would have put him to death.

Didn't he tell Hershel that his wife lives in Virginia?

maybe it's just me but I don't hold the murder against Lee as a character flaw. In my eyes he acted the way a lot of men and women would have acted in finding their spouse going at it with someone else.

Of course we don't know the details at this point but that is what I gleamed from my play through. Lee is not a cold blooded murderer he is a man who's passion got the better of him in the heat of the moment when he found his wife in the arms of another.

wellgolly · 05/07/2012, 12:55 pm

I didn't really see much reaction to the "boy" stuff by itself, but I can totally understand why that'd come off as pissy to a 30-something guy.

It's a bit hard to put into words, so let me use an example: sometimes my boss calls me "boy." He's about 50, and I'm 21. It's not like either of us gave it any thought, yet the unspoken assumption is that he's older (and therefore wiser, i guess?), and so it's a very casual thing. Nothing's really being implied, it's just a way to address me.
HOWEVER, if a late-twenties person called me that, my instant reaction would be getting pissed at them. It's condescending coming from a person from the same general age-group.
Lee's middle aged; old enough for that to be weird from anybody, except maybe a really elderly person. Like, 90.

It's a lot like one woman calling the other "sweetie" or "honey". There's like a list of unwritten rules everybody follows, even if nobody actually consciously thinks about it. Larry's being a passive-aggressive baby.

(by the way: i don't think lee's wife was raped? remember that bit at the beginning about marrying the wrong woman? that'd be some major-league victim blaming)

Juicius Maximus · 05/07/2012, 02:17 pm

I think you're misreading OP's use of "boy." it's an old southern racial epithet, one a white person might use to address a black person twice his age. Now if this were the 50's, it wouldn't surprise me to see Lee just shut up and take it, but in this day and age, that would be highly unlikely.
I'm basically curious about context here. Did that scene imply racism, or was Larry just addressing a younger man in a condescending manner? The end of the episode seems to imply that Larry simply distrusts Lee because he knows who he is and what he did. I'm sorta hoping there's more to it than that, because race is a topic so rarely addressed in videogames. Either way, can't wait to see how it plays out!

Kazal · 05/07/2012, 07:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicius Maximus

I think you're misreading OP's use of "boy." it's an old southern racial epithet, one a white person might use to address a black person twice his age. Now if this were the 50's, it wouldn't surprise me to see Lee just shut up and take it, but in this day and age, that would be highly unlikely.
I'm basically curious about context here. Did that scene imply racism, or was Larry just addressing a younger man in a condescending manner? The end of the episode seems to imply that Larry simply distrusts Lee because he knows who he is and what he did. I'm sorta hoping there's more to it than that, because race is a topic so rarely addressed in videogames. Either way, can't wait to see how it plays out!

you understand me perfectly sir, thank you.

I share your enthusiasm for seeing how things play out. And you are right video games hardly ever touch on it, and seeing how the comic made use of it I am curious to see what the video games does with it.

CapnJay · 05/07/2012, 08:13 pm

Indeed Race might be part of it after all if it was a white senator killed by a black man then even if you are slightly racist you might accidentally become a little more. I could relate my own anecdotes about race relations from high school but it's neither the time nor place for that

Kazal · 05/08/2012, 11:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnJay

Indeed Race might be part of it after all if it was a white senator killed by a black man then even if you are slightly racist you might accidentally become a little more. I could relate my own anecdotes about race relations from high school but it's neither the time nor place for that

The thought of someone becoming "accidentally" more racist tickles me.

CapnJay · 05/10/2012, 12:13 am

Meanwhile Larry is sitting back reading this forum going "Man I don't hate Lee cause he's black I hate him because he still owes me 20 bucks from poker night... oh .. and the whole senator thing"

toothiersnow · 05/10/2012, 09:52 am

im used to be called 'ewwww get away from me' its a pet name i think...

*Vainamoinen* · 05/10/2012, 12:44 pm

Discuss the GAME, folks. As in words 4 to 15 of the preceding post. Put your real-life context somewhere else in this case, please, lest the thread gets closed. Starting.... NOW.

Thank you.

toothiersnow · 05/10/2012, 12:55 pm

...so.... larry eh, bit of a character, and that lee, naughty naughty man for killing a senator for sleeping with his wife, strange how no one tried to kill arnie, thems the breaks i guess

*Mike* · 05/10/2012, 01:30 pm

I just had to delete so many posts in this thread that there's almost no point even keeping it open. To echo what Vainamoinen already said, please apply some common sense to what you're posting. This is a video game forum. The topic I just had to deal with was not even remotely appropriate, and, yes, it was actual racism coming from one poster.

I do NOT want to close this thread, but the next time it goes as badly off-track as it did before, I will.

05/05/2012, 05:07 pm	#1
Kazal Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8	Statement in regards to the dynamic between Lee and Larry. First off a “congratulations” is due to the team behind the game. I think they have a good thing started with the first episode. I wish them continued success and I cannot wait to enjoy the rest of the episodes. I had question/statement of sorts for the team. I don’t expect/need/deserve a direct reply but it’s just something for them to think about. In the comic series one of the draws for me was the psychological and racial aspect the comic plays on. I enjoy art that does not shy away from racial questions or situations. With that said I bought the game not expecting so much a racial aspect but I was certainly drawn to the physiological aspect and even more to the “choose your own adventure” model the team had deployed. I am thoroughly pleased. I physically smiled when as the game started I realized the main character is black. I could go on a tangent about how thrilled I am and how dismayed I am that I do not see it more often, but this is not a college paper so I will simply say “Thank you” for adding that bit of diversity. In saying that, I was not at all surprised in seeing the interactions between Larry and Lee in which Larry calls Lee “boy” twice. (At least from the options I picked) I am not making a complaint, I completely understand it. I am curious of Lee’s reaction to that insult. As a man in his late 30’s highly educated and living in the south he should understand and have more of a reaction to such a term. I am curious why his reaction looks to be a mixed of hurt feelings and confusion. I am not expecting him to get violent and belligerent but I hope that he stands up for himself more in future episodes. That’s it, that’s my “gripe” if one can call it that. Other than that I am well pleased with the product and I eagerly await future episodes. Thank you for reading. What does the community think about this?

05/05/2012, 05:15 pm	#2
CapnJay The Consumate Consumer Join Date: May 2012 Location: Red Dwarf Posts: 2,451	I have thoughts on Larry for the Does anyone else hate larry thread but i'm hesitant to bring them up yet __________________ http://i47.tinypic.com/2qds5si.gif >-O_###K.I.Q.C.S###_O-< I am Sir Jay of RedBull Head Scribe and Knight charged with Protecting the Queen,Penning tales for the Queen , Keeping Milo from going further insane,Keeping an Eye on the K.O.P. Mentored by Tom Lehrer's Ghost

05/05/2012, 05:25 pm	#3
Irishmile The Skipping Dead Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: WI, its a paradise 3 months of the year Posts: 6,542	I think Lee is smart enough to know that issue was probably not best to address at that moment... Maybe it will come up again.. Lee and Larry are both alpha males and it will be interesting to see them struggle for leadership of the group.. Even if Lee doesn't want the title .. he will not let someone else do it if they are making horrible choices. There was a lot of subtle character development going on .. At least that is what I got from it. __________________ unholy THIS! I am a community moderator, here to assist, keep the peace, and keep these boards clean and friendly for all. I am a volunteer, and not a Telltale employee, and my opinions are my own.

05/05/2012, 05:52 pm	#6
CapnJay The Consumate Consumer Join Date: May 2012 Location: Red Dwarf Posts: 2,451	I'll post my opinion on Larry in his thread which i call my Adrenaline into the debate __________________ http://i47.tinypic.com/2qds5si.gif >-O_###K.I.Q.C.S###_O-< I am Sir Jay of RedBull Head Scribe and Knight charged with Protecting the Queen,Penning tales for the Queen , Keeping Milo from going further insane,Keeping an Eye on the K.O.P. Mentored by Tom Lehrer's Ghost

05/07/2012, 08:13 pm	#14
CapnJay The Consumate Consumer Join Date: May 2012 Location: Red Dwarf Posts: 2,451	Indeed Race might be part of it after all if it was a white senator killed by a black man then even if you are slightly racist you might accidentally become a little more. I could relate my own anecdotes about race relations from high school but it's neither the time nor place for that __________________ http://i47.tinypic.com/2qds5si.gif >-O_###K.I.Q.C.S###_O-< I am Sir Jay of RedBull Head Scribe and Knight charged with Protecting the Queen,Penning tales for the Queen , Keeping Milo from going further insane,Keeping an Eye on the K.O.P. Mentored by Tom Lehrer's Ghost

05/05/2012, 06:14 pm	#7
Im_The_Foreman Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 87	I don't understand the original post, because Lee openly advocates murdering Larry in half of the dialogue choices. The premise of the post is that Larry doesn't have strong enough response options, that's clearly wrong Also not everyone of the same race has to react in the same way to sharp language. The choices need to be consistent with the characters mentality and nature.

05/07/2012, 12:55 pm	#11
wellgolly Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 101	I didn't really see much reaction to the "boy" stuff by itself, but I can totally understand why that'd come off as pissy to a 30-something guy. It's a bit hard to put into words, so let me use an example: sometimes my boss calls me "boy." He's about 50, and I'm 21. It's not like either of us gave it any thought, yet the unspoken assumption is that he's older (and therefore wiser, i guess?), and so it's a very casual thing. Nothing's really being implied, it's just a way to address me. HOWEVER, if a late-twenties person called me that, my instant reaction would be getting pissed at them. It's condescending coming from a person from the same general age-group. Lee's middle aged; old enough for that to be weird from anybody, except maybe a really elderly person. Like, 90. It's a lot like one woman calling the other "sweetie" or "honey". There's like a list of unwritten rules everybody follows, even if nobody actually consciously thinks about it. Larry's being a passive-aggressive baby. (by the way: i don't think lee's wife was raped? remember that bit at the beginning about marrying the wrong woman? that'd be some major-league victim blaming)

05/07/2012, 02:17 pm	#12
Juicius Maximus Drooler Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 348	I think you're misreading OP's use of "boy." it's an old southern racial epithet, one a white person might use to address a black person twice his age. Now if this were the 50's, it wouldn't surprise me to see Lee just shut up and take it, but in this day and age, that would be highly unlikely. I'm basically curious about context here. Did that scene imply racism, or was Larry just addressing a younger man in a condescending manner? The end of the episode seems to imply that Larry simply distrusts Lee because he knows who he is and what he did. I'm sorta hoping there's more to it than that, because race is a topic so rarely addressed in videogames. Either way, can't wait to see how it plays out!

05/10/2012, 12:13 am	#16
CapnJay The Consumate Consumer Join Date: May 2012 Location: Red Dwarf Posts: 2,451	Meanwhile Larry is sitting back reading this forum going "Man I don't hate Lee cause he's black I hate him because he still owes me 20 bucks from poker night... oh .. and the whole senator thing" __________________ http://i47.tinypic.com/2qds5si.gif >-O_###K.I.Q.C.S###_O-< I am Sir Jay of RedBull Head Scribe and Knight charged with Protecting the Queen,Penning tales for the Queen , Keeping Milo from going further insane,Keeping an Eye on the K.O.P. Mentored by Tom Lehrer's Ghost

05/10/2012, 09:52 am	#17
toothiersnow Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 264	im used to be called 'ewwww get away from me' its a pet name i think...

05/10/2012, 12:44 pm	#18
Vainamoinen Community Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 6,641	Discuss the GAME, folks. As in words 4 to 15 of the preceding post. Put your real-life context somewhere else in this case, please, lest the thread gets closed. Starting.... NOW. Thank you. __________________ Moderators on the TTG forums are all volunteers from the community and still belong to the community. They are not employees of the company. The opinions expressed in their posts are those of individual fans and must not be confused with official company statements.

05/10/2012, 12:55 pm	#19
toothiersnow Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 264	...so.... larry eh, bit of a character, and that lee, naughty naughty man for killing a senator for sleeping with his wife, strange how no one tried to kill arnie, thems the breaks i guess

05/10/2012, 01:30 pm	#20
Mike Moderator Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,224	I just had to delete so many posts in this thread that there's almost no point even keeping it open. To echo what Vainamoinen already said, please apply some common sense to what you're posting. This is a video game forum. The topic I just had to deal with was not even remotely appropriate, and, yes, it was actual racism coming from one poster. I do NOT want to close this thread, but the next time it goes as badly off-track as it did before, I will.

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