F*** Kenny

[YamiRaziel]

Originally Posted by Rock114

Even if the RV wasn't completely fixed, it was fixed enough to get us far away from the motor inn in case of an emergency like, oh, say...a bandit raid? How many groups actually have working vehicles, working vehicles that can carry ALL those members of the group at one time? Frankly I was GLAD he was working on the RV. Remember, even if the RV was a POS, it was likely many times worse before Kenny began working on it. That RV, let us not forget, is also the only reason anyone in the group made it out of that raid alive. To call him irresponsible for not fixing it completely is just unfair. He's a fisherman ya know! He specializes in POS boats, not POS camping vehicles.

That's not the point, man. Of course, we're glad to have an emergency escape plan. However, I was left with the impression that this was all he was talking about the entire week between ep.2 and ep.3. Why would he pressure the entire group and Lilly like that when the RV is not even ready? It seems stupid and childish. Lilly needed some time to mourn but instead he kept arguing with her when the RV wasn't even finished. What if he couldn't fully repair it? What if he didn't have the spare parts to make it fully working? Was it really necessary to annoy the entire group with his constant whining and fighting?

As for Kenny's RV saving the situation, I think you're giving him too much credit. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for Lilly and Lee, none would be alive to even start the RV.
It is interesting that I didn't even see that many walkers in that scene. I'm sure that the combined fire power of Lee, Lilly and Carly (optional) was more than enough to deal with both bandits and walkers. It felt stupid to abandon everything, but I guess it was all in the heat of the moment.

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

That's not the point, man. Of course, we're glad to have an emergency escape plan. However, I was left with the impression that this was all he was talking about the entire week between ep.2 and ep.3. Why would he pressure the entire group and Lilly like that when the RV is not even ready? It seems stupid and childish. Lilly needed some time to mourn but instead he kept arguing with her when the RV wasn't even finished. What if he couldn't fully repair it? What if he didn't have the spare parts to make it fully working? Was it really necessary to annoy the entire group with his constant whining and fighting?

As for Kenny's RV saving the situation, I think you're giving him too much credit. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for Lilly and Lee, none would be alive to even start the RV.
It is interesting that I didn't even see that many walkers in that scene. I'm sure that the combined fire power of Lee, Lilly and Carly (optional) was more than enough to deal with both bandits and walkers. It felt stupid to abandon everything, but I guess it was all in the heat of the moment.

Remember that we have a fairly sizeable town bursting at the seams with walkers, within walking distance from our home. A large group of bandits is shooting at us, then walkers show up. How much ammo did the group really have? You always have more zombies trying to eat you than you have bullets to stop them. The walkers we were seeing were probably only the ones within a minute's walk of the motel, as the raid didn't last long enough for the walkers from Macon to get there before we left. If a herd from Macon had shown up, that would have been it.

And I don't give Kenny complete credit for saving the group. He fixed up the RV (mostly) and tried to start it during the fight. Without Lilly, the bandits may have started executing people. Then again, they may also have gone back to their camp once we struck a new deal with them. Let us not forget that their leader said it was time to "hash out some terms". Then Kenny could have completed the repairs, everyone would pack up the supplies we had left, and we would hit the road. Hell, looking at it that way we could blame Lilly for Kat and Duck's death. Lee gets the credit for actually holding off the bandits after the fight actually begins. I never saw Lilly drop anyone but the bandit leader.

During the fight Kenny was still working on the RV as he KNEW the situation was doomed. Kenny is the one who suggested that the motor-inn be fortified all the way back in Episode 1. If he sees that it's about to fall, then it's probably about to fall. Without Lilly, people might have been executed. We may also have been able to talk the bandits down and leave after they left. Without Lee, the walkers and bandits would have overrun everyone while Kenny worked on the RV. Without Kenny, the RV wouldn't have been fixed and we would all have been sitting on our hands when the Macon herd showed up. Low on ammo with no way of escape. Duck was bitten by the first walker to enter the compound, imagine if we had seen more than the 10 we killed. The bandits had plenty of trouble dividing their attention between us and the walkers, and their backs weren't to the wall like ours were.

And wouldn't you want a plan when/if you decided to leave the motel? I don't see how waitintg to make a plan until after the RV was completely repaired would be a smart idea. You'd want an idea of what you're taking, where you're going, how far it is, if there is any place you can get supplies along the way. Kenny was PREPARING for when the RV was actually fixed. I don't really see the downside to having a plan and knowing what you are going to do. At Pearl Harbor, the Japanese had been practicing and planning months in advance. The pilots knew their targets, where they would be, and how to approach them. Needless to say, they won. I'm not saying Kenny is some kind of strategic mastermind. Far from that in fact. But he realizes the importance of planning and preparation.

[Kiel555]

Originally Posted by Rock114

Even if the RV wasn't completely fixed, it was fixed enough to get us far away from the motor inn in case of an emergency like, oh, say...a bandit raid? How many groups actually have working vehicles, working vehicles that can carry ALL those members of the group at one time? Frankly I was GLAD he was working on the RV. Remember, even if the RV was a POS, it was likely many times worse before Kenny began working on it. That RV, let us not forget, is also the only reason anyone in the group made it out of that raid alive. To call him irresponsible for not fixing it completely is just unfair. He's a fisherman ya know! He specializes in POS boats, not POS camping vehicles.

We have to live with this insufferable malcontent called Kenny for over a week and to the point that Lilly is pleading for just one week with out his constant bellyaching and the RV is not even ready to go.

Then we get attacked where Lilly and Lee free the hostages followed by Lilly, Lee and Carley killing most of the bandits (granted there was a walker assist). Then Lee kills many walkers and even saves Kat and Duck (mostly). Kenny was out of the fight, why? because he was still working on the RV!

I think if we had continued to stand our ground that in addition to seeing the end of the bandit threat the few remaining walkers could have been put down as well. I know one thing for sure, we did not get out of that raid alive because of Kenny.

[YamiRaziel]

Every normal human being would give a person who has lost a close family member some time to grief. Especially if it is your fault, you should be extra polite and careful.
However, that's not how Kenny rolls. He has to always put his shit in front of everybody else. Always, even when the damn RV is not ready. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with planning. It's just that things have to go his way.
It's one thing to make plans in case something happens and another to bitch and whine everyday for not having things done your way.
When Kenny asked me where do I stand on this matter I said we should stay. He told me that we had to leave and I said "Ok, we split then". He was actually offended because Lilly and Carley would stay with me and all he got was Ben... I mean, wtf?
To me he developed some very strong desire to control people for those 3 episodes and just wouldn't accept things not being done his way.

[Rock114]

Having time to grieve is nice and all, but did you see those bullet holes in the wall? And the arrows sticking out? I suppose Kenny would be a better person if Lilly took an arrow through the eye a few days later, as long as he gave her time to grieve for her zombie father. I'd rather have her alive and pissed at me than dead and feeling happy that I put the group's safety aside just so she can sort her feelings out.

Did Lilly even have a long term plan for the motor inn? The station wagon's food was going to run out before winter was over, and Macon looked pretty bare. How many times do people have to risk their lives going into a walker infested city for an ever-dwindling amount of supplies? The only food they brought back at the start of episode 3 were a few energy bars. Her response to the food situation at the start of episode 2 is "we'll find some". Sounds to me like Lilly is the one who says "To hell with preparation!" I'd rather take a chance out on the road than choose an arrow through the eye at the motel, or a slow death by starvation. When I told Kenny we'd split up, he said he would ahve done that a long time ago if he didn't see it as suicide.

And Kiel, what would you do when everyone ran out of ammo? The only melee weapon we had was confiscated by the St. Johns. Lee wouldn't exactly get extra points for "trying" if he charged a bandit with that thing even if he did still have it. He'd get a bullet to the face. You don't survive by trying to tank EVERY threat you see coming at you. You survive by eliminating it, or when the danger is too great (like a bandit raid with walkers coming in) you survive by running away. I'd rather not have to re-enact the Alamo, especially with a wall held together by duct tape and prayer being my only protection.

[YamiRaziel]

I think you underestimate the dangers one can face on the road. It is really a suicide. You think Savannah is going to be easy? Think again...
The only high change you have on the road is during winter. If I'm not mistaken walker freeze and cannot move.

[FarmerJoe]

Since episode 3 I don't feel as strongly to post that much in the fuck Kenny thread.
However, I still think he shows what a callous dick he is when he wants to leave Lilly behind at the motel.This is the very woman who's father's skull he smashed,in front of her,only a week ago.Does Kenny change his attitude and behaviour towards her following what he did? show an ounce of contrition? no, he just keeps on bitching and whining.

Thankfully Kenny repaired(just enough) the RV and did some supply runs/hunting with Lee. Good, he should contribute something since he didn't seem to do anything to keep the motel maintained. In episode 2 he sat on his backside while an old man with a heart condition worked on the barricades, which kept them safe, and another man saved his wife. In Jolene's video it even showed Larry moving large furniture while Kenny stood waving his arms and giving orders to Lee.

I'm willing to give Kenny a chance in episode 4 but if he wants to leave my Lee will not stop him but he will not let him die either, if it's possible to save him.

[Cyreen]

An average winter temperature of 39 °F (4 °C), is not cold enough to freeze anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate...8U.S._state%29

You are just as likely to die sitting still, as moving. You go where the supplies are.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

That's not the point, man. Of course, we're glad to have an emergency escape plan. However, I was left with the impression that this was all he was talking about the entire week between ep.2 and ep.3. Why would he pressure the entire group and Lilly like that when the RV is not even ready? It seems stupid and childish. Lilly needed some time to mourn but instead he kept arguing with her when the RV wasn't even finished. What if he couldn't fully repair it? What if he didn't have the spare parts to make it fully working? Was it really necessary to annoy the entire group with his constant whining and fighting?

As for Kenny's RV saving the situation, I think you're giving him too much credit. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for Lilly and Lee, none would be alive to even start the RV.
It is interesting that I didn't even see that many walkers in that scene. I'm sure that the combined fire power of Lee, Lilly and Carly (optional) was more than enough to deal with both bandits and walkers. It felt stupid to abandon everything, but I guess it was all in the heat of the moment.

For all we know, he had the tools and just needed more time to work on it and test it. Kenny knew that bandits knew about the camp and were dangerous and so he wanted everyone to get on the RV and GTFO when anything bad happens, not bicker and argue about it. Better to argue about it and convince people leavings good, before something bad happens. Dont want people doing something stupid like staying in the motel with bandits and walkers for miles approaching. Did you not see how many bandits and walkers were around, and do you really think they had the ammo and strength to deal with all of them?

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by FarmerJoe

Since episode 3 I don't feel as strongly to post that much in the fuck Kenny thread.
However, I still think he shows what a callous dick he is when he wants to leave Lilly behind at the motel.This is the very woman who's father's skull he smashed,in front of her,only a week ago.Does Kenny change his attitude and behaviour towards her following what he did? show an ounce of contrition? no, he just keeps on bitching and whining.

Thankfully Kenny repaired(just enough) the RV and did some supply runs/hunting with Lee. Good, he should contribute something since he didn't seem to do anything to keep the motel maintained. In episode 2 he sat on his backside while an old man with a heart condition worked on the barricades, which kept them safe, and another man saved his wife. In Jolene's video it even showed Larry moving large furniture while Kenny stood waving his arms and giving orders to Lee.

I'm willing to give Kenny a chance in episode 4 but if he wants to leave my Lee will not stop him but he will not let him die either, if it's possible to save him.

Bandits and walkers were approaching from all sides, his son and wife had nearly been killed, and they were all sitting in a very exposed RV and Lilly was on the balcony. I cant blame Kenny for wanting to GTFO as quickly as possible, it was the smart thing to do. Better one dies than the RV getting damaged and the whole group dies.

Larry did some work on the barricades, Lilly stayed on watch and handed out rations. Kenny meanwhile went on a dangerous supply mission with Lee and Mark and helped save Ben and his teachers lifes. And it was just chance that Lee was the one to save Kat and not Kenny. And Larry is huge and strong, of course he has to be the one to move large things. No one else probably has the strength. Not to mention Lilly is in charge of rations, so Larry probably gets more than his fair share :P

[Kiel555]

Originally Posted by Rock114

And Kiel, what would you do when everyone ran out of ammo? The only melee weapon we had was confiscated by the St. Johns. Lee wouldn't exactly get extra points for "trying" if he charged a bandit with that thing even if he did still have it. He'd get a bullet to the face. You don't survive by trying to tank EVERY threat you see coming at you. You survive by eliminating it, or when the danger is too great (like a bandit raid with walkers coming in) you survive by running away. I'd rather not have to re-enact the Alamo, especially with a wall held together by duct tape and prayer being my only protection.

Tha Alamo? The fight came to us and it did appear that that those who were actively defending our "home", Lilly, Lee and Carley, were gaining the upper hand.

I wish I knew what weapons and ammo the group has but TTG does not make those details available to the player. Even now, I think the only person who is armed in Lee. Maybe he only has one bullet left maybe he has twenty...don't know.

But back at the Alamo, you just do what we see done in every war movie ever made when ammo gets low or runs out...you walk over to the dead bodies (the bandits in this case) and take their weapon and ammo. Once that initial wave of walkers is dealt with I would start using Linda's crossbow as needed to not attract more walkers.

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by Kiel555

Tha Alamo? The fight came to us and it did appear that that those who were actively defending our "home", Lilly, Lee and Carley, were gaining the upper hand.

I wish I knew what weapons and ammo the group has but TTG does not make those details available to the player. Even now, I think the only person who is armed in Lee. Maybe he only has one bullet left maybe he has twenty...don't know.

But back at the Alamo, you just do what we see done in every war movie ever made when ammo gets low or runs out...you walk over to the dead bodies (the bandits in this case) and take their weapon and ammo. Once that initial wave of walkers is dealt with I would start using Linda's crossbow as needed to not attract more walkers.

I guess it's just differences in opinion then. Personally, I'd rather not HAVE to defend our home if it looks like it's being overrun. I saw the only way out as being the RV, but I would have felt really stupid if it turned out that we could have held the motel with minimal casualties (1-2 people is what I would count as acceptable). Since I guess we'll never know either way, I'll still give Kenny some of the credit for saving us. It didn't look to me like we could hold them off, and even Lee says "no shit" when Kenny tells him to get everyone to the RV. I'd rather be back at the motor inn than Savvanah though, because at least there we had a wall between us and them.

[YamiRaziel]

Originally Posted by Rock114

I guess it's just differences in opinion then. Personally, I'd rather not HAVE to defend our home if it looks like it's being overrun. I saw the only way out as being the RV, but I would have felt really stupid if it turned out that we could have held the motel with minimal casualties (1-2 people is what I would count as acceptable). Since I guess we'll never know either way, I'll still give Kenny some of the credit for saving us. It didn't look to me like we could hold them off, and even Lee says "no shit" when Kenny tells him to get everyone to the RV. I'd rather be back at the motor inn than Savvanah though, because at least there we had a wall between us and them.

The thing is the for 3 months there could be some much powerful gangs we can encounter than the ones we already knew about.
Both situations present huge risks so... it all comes to personal approach.

[Kiel555]

Originally Posted by Rock114

I guess it's just differences in opinion then. Personally, I'd rather not HAVE to defend our home if it looks like it's being overrun. I saw the only way out as being the RV, but I would have felt really stupid if it turned out that we could have held the motel with minimal casualties (1-2 people is what I would count as acceptable). Since I guess we'll never know either way, I'll still give Kenny some of the credit for saving us. It didn't look to me like we could hold them off, and even Lee says "no shit" when Kenny tells him to get everyone to the RV. I'd rather be back at the motor inn than Savvanah though, because at least there we had a wall between us and them.

Yeah...I just got a look at the e4 trailer. One or two casualties works for me too if it meant not having to go to Savannah.

[FarmerJoe]

Originally Posted by Kiel555

Yeah...I just got a look at the e4 trailer. One or two casualties works for me too if it meant not having to go to Savannah.

Would I be right if I suggested Ben as being one of those casulties?

[Zeruis]

I'm giving Kenny a break in the next episode. Looks like the poor guy will become an alcoholic.

[Kiel555]

Originally Posted by FarmerJoe

Would I be right if I suggested Ben as being one of those casulties?

Oh yeah...Ben would make an excellent casualty. I told Lee to kick him off the train...after watching the e4 trailer I'm just shaking my head in disappointment with Lee...and where the hell is Chucks guitar? e4 is going to be a rough one.

[Rock114]

I actually didn't see Kenny as becoming an alcoholic outright... Poor guy. The only group members who actually have their shit together anymore seem to be Christa and Lee. Chuck is an unknown, Ben is a damn coward, Omid is wounded and Kenny is a drunk. And Joe, if you saw the episode 4 trailer you would know you were right.

[Kiel555]

Originally Posted by Zeruis

I'm giving Kenny a break in the next episode. Looks like the poor guy will become an alcoholic.

No slack for Kenny. He has no friends in my game. He can drink the whole bottle with my compliments then take a nice moonlite stroll in downtown Savannah for all I care.

[Viser]

Originally Posted by Kiel555

No slack for Kenny. He has no friends in my game. He can drink the whole bottle with my compliments then take a nice moonlite stroll in downtown Savannah for all I care.

I Agree.
I have been trying to give that friendship a second chance, but I'm not gonna keep trying if he's just gonna be a dick to everyone. While I won't let him die if I can help it, if I had to choose between him and anyone else (yes, even Ben), I'd pick 'anyone else' anytime.