F*** Kenny

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by TMLC

Hum... I don’t know. Lilly seems reluctant about Mark and wasn’t the first one to accept Ben either. But her position at the looting the car matter could indicate some kind of change. Who knows?

She actually says it herself, Mark was allowed to stay because he happened to bring enough food for everybody when he arrived. Whereas Ben and company were extra mouths to feed and, in Lilly's own words: "I don't suppose you guys are carrying any groceries, are you?".

She may not have been super-nice to Mark, but she evidently wasn't opposed to him being there since he wasn't just another mouth to feed that showed up empty-handed. Ben didn't have that going in his favor. The owner of the car would resemble Mark's situation (had enough food and supplies for the group) than Ben's (showed up with nothing but the clothes on his back).

[Saylenia]

Originally Posted by CapnJay

I REEEEEEEEEEEALLLLLLY hope that in EP3 when my duck saving larry threatening duck feeding kenny feeding Lee is confronted by Kenny for not siding to kill Larry that he Goes off on like

"Listen up you son of a bitch! I have helped you and your family all the time i protected him from larry and saved him from the walkers I fed him and you! I even told Lily you were right but Your selfish racist ass thought I could pick a lock cause im black and then to top it off when I tried to give Larry the same chance I gave Duck and you treat me like i betrayed you. You want to be a fair weather friend then go ahead and you can fuck yourself while your at it!"

HERE HERE that would be my first option to choose lol

[concentric]

My take on Kenny is that IF you sided with Lilly, he loses his head when you go after Danny in the stable. He regrets it later and tries to make it up with you on the way back to the motel. And he did regret saying what he said about picking the lock. It's understandable that he puts his family first, but still values Lee (though ahead of the group) for his contributions.

Lilly herself has made some selfish decisions so far and IMO is not exactly likeable or completely trustworthy, though she seems to be better at keeping her head in a bad situation. She does understand that Lee has helped her and the group in general. She's not a bitter, angry asshole, unlike her father.

So to me it's not really a question of which character is better as a person. It's more, when is this conflict brewing between Kenny and Lilly going to come to a head?

[Fenchurch]

Originally Posted by Wilder41

All I know is. If Kenny does end up dieing I demand the achieve "Oh my god, they killed Kenny!"

You Bastards! ;-)

Originally Posted by Balisong123

Love the game, but TellTale doesn't really appear to be putting our decisions in to play just yet..They seem to be very minor things. It feels on rails so far, but that's off topic.

Yeah, that's true, but in fact that wouldn't be possible at all.
There are many hours of gameplay to come, if we could make substancial decisions right now, the plot-possibilities would spread out exponantially.
My guess is, real decisions will come in the second half of the last episode.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Rommel49

She actually says it herself, Mark was allowed to stay because he happened to bring enough food for everybody when he arrived. Whereas Ben and company were extra mouths to feed and, in Lilly's own words: "I don't suppose you guys are carrying any groceries, are you?".

She may not have been super-nice to Mark, but she evidently wasn't opposed to him being there since he wasn't just another mouth to feed that showed up empty-handed. Ben didn't have that going in his favor. The owner of the car would resemble Mark's situation (had enough food and supplies for the group) than Ben's (showed up with nothing but the clothes on his back).

That just shows how hypocritical she is, or rather, how unconcerned she is with anything but her and Larry's survival.

If she were truly up to discussing, she would realize that pretty much everyone but the children are more useful to the group than that obnoxious SOB her Dad is. Even Ben provides useful information (about how we all have the potential to become Walkers, even without being bit). Larry has a medical condition - I'm sure he does stuff around the Motor Inn, but what he can do is obviously limited compared to members like Kenny, Mark, and Doug. On top of that, his attitude frightens and divides the group. If Lily was smart, she would realize that she needs to reign in her Dad's antics, and show a little bit more compassion towards the members of the group with children (in the same way I show compassion for her wanting to have her Father with her, despite him being a drag on the overall survival and cohesion of the group).

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

That just shows how hypocritical she is, or rather, how unconcerned she is with anything but her and Larry's survival.

If she were truly up to discussing, she would realize that pretty much everyone but the children are more useful to the group than that obnoxious SOB her Dad is. Even Ben provides useful information (about how we all have the potential to become Walkers, even without being bit). Larry has a medical condition - I'm sure he does stuff around the Motor Inn, but what he can do is obviously limited compared to members like Kenny, Mark, and Doug. On top of that, his attitude frightens and divides the group. If Lily was smart, she would realize that she needs to reign in her Dad's antics, and show a little bit more compassion towards the members of the group with children (in the same way I show compassion for her wanting to have her Father with her, despite him being a drag on the overall survival and cohesion of the group).

However, there is the issue that Ben didn't actually share that information in a timely fashion when the group brought back one of his potentially dying friends. That information probably could've been confirmed regardless of whether Ben was there or not once things had calmed down. You see the group start to piece it together on their own anyway (the fact Katjaa didn't see a bite, why there's so many, etc.).

By the same token, Larry brings valuable experience to the group as well, given he was ex-military.

Hell, as I've previously covered, Larry's seen contributing more around the inn than Kenny does; he busies himself with building/reinforcing the fence, while Kenny just sits in the corner stroking his pipe and planning his departure. Even when Katjaa's attacked by her recently deceased patient in the pickup, Larry'll help, Mark'll help, Kenny never will - despite the fact it was his wife at stake.

It's one of the things that you learn in the military, it's not just about a guy's ability to contribute to the group, but his willingness to. And Kenny was way below even Larry in that catergory. Yeah, Larry has a medical condition, but so does everybody in a post-apocalyptic world, it's called "being human" which results in a return to essentially medieval fatality rates due to illness or infection from everyday injuries, etc. simply due to a lack of things like antibiotics, and it doesn't take that long before the "low-lying fruit" is gone and that kind of stuff either becomes a lot more rare or non-existent... in which case, the guys who do contribute should take precedence over those who simply have the potential to.

[SkippyMcSkipster]

Originally Posted by Rommel49

However, there is the issue that Ben didn't actually share that information in a timely fashion when the group brought back one of his potentially dying friends. That information probably could've been confirmed regardless of whether Ben was there or not once things had calmed down. You see the group start to piece it together on their own anyway (the fact Katjaa didn't see a bite, why there's so many, etc.).

By the same token, Larry brings valuable experience to the group as well, given he was ex-military.

Hell, as I've previously covered, Larry's seen contributing more around the inn than Kenny does; he busies himself with building/reinforcing the fence, while Kenny just sits in the corner stroking his pipe and planning his departure. Even when Katjaa's attacked by her recently deceased patient in the pickup, Larry'll help, Mark'll help, Kenny never will - despite the fact it was his wife at stake.

It's one of the things that you learn in the military, it's not just about a guy's ability to contribute to the group, but his willingness to. And Kenny was way below even Larry in that catergory. Yeah, Larry has a medical condition, but so does everybody in a post-apocalyptic world, it's called "being human" which results in a return to essentially medieval fatality rates due to illness or infection from everyday injuries, etc. simply due to a lack of things like antibiotics, and it doesn't take that long before the "low-lying fruit" is gone and that kind of stuff either becomes a lot more rare or non-existent... in which case, the guys who do contribute should take precedence over those who simply have the potential to.

Agreed, Larry might be a dick, but he's at least helping out instead of lounging in a lawn chair like a bitch like Kenny. Kenny was the last guy i was gonna give food to at the beginning of Ep. 2.

[CapnJay]

doug and duck should team up to make walker killer traps

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Rommel49

However, there is the issue that Ben didn't actually share that information in a timely fashion when the group brought back one of his potentially dying friends. That information probably could've been confirmed regardless of whether Ben was there or not once things had calmed down. You see the group start to piece it together on their own anyway (the fact Katjaa didn't see a bite, why there's so many, etc.).

By the same token, Larry brings valuable experience to the group as well, given he was ex-military.

Hell, as I've previously covered, Larry's seen contributing more around the inn than Kenny does; he busies himself with building/reinforcing the fence, while Kenny just sits in the corner stroking his pipe and planning his departure. Even when Katjaa's attacked by her recently deceased patient in the pickup, Larry'll help, Mark'll help, Kenny never will - despite the fact it was his wife at stake.

It's one of the things that you learn in the military, it's not just about a guy's ability to contribute to the group, but his willingness to. And Kenny was way below even Larry in that catergory. Yeah, Larry has a medical condition, but so does everybody in a post-apocalyptic world, it's called "being human" which results in a return to essentially medieval fatality rates due to illness or infection from everyday injuries, etc. simply due to a lack of things like antibiotics, and it doesn't take that long before the "low-lying fruit" is gone and that kind of stuff either becomes a lot more rare or non-existent... in which case, the guys who do contribute should take precedence over those who simply have the potential to.

Kenny has tasked himself with fixing the motor home - some people might call that worthless, but it certainly isn't "sitting around" or "doing nothing". It also makes more sense, because as I understand, he believes that the group should abandon the Motor Inn and find a better spot. He is doing what he believes to be the smarter option (and frankly I agree with him - it's getting obvious that if we stay at the Motor Inn, we are all going to starve). Also, he was part of the group that went out hunting - so we can't say that Kenny has done less then Larry (note I never said that Larry contributed less, he is just limited in the WAY he can contribute, which overall limits his usefulness).

And you falsely assume that anyone other than Lee has TIME to help Katjaa get away from the dead Teacher. Lee saves her pretty quickly (before anyone else, including Larry and Mark can respond), and then becomes involved in a struggle himself. I can imagine no one tries to shoot the walker, because Lee is too close, leaving the person with the axe scrambling to help (and really the only person who can do so). So, in that situation, there's not much Kenny could have done to help, beyond making sure that if Lee gets eaten, that the Walker doesn't attack anyone else.

And Ben is barely more than a kid, having just had a traumatic event, and finding himself alone amongst a group of strangers. I don't think we can fault him for not considering that we might not know that everyone has the potential to become a Walker. In fact, he presumes that any group that's been around this long has to know this already. He really is the only reason that we know that all of the dead becomes walkers as soon as we do, which is helpful (no matter which way you want to swing it).

As for Larry's military knowledge, it does make him valuable (Lee even has a chance to assert this at the St. John's Farm), however it only has the potential to help until it is applied. As far as we know, Lily is the only one to apply any military knowledge to the groups routine, forcing the adults to train with their rifles to become more accurate, lethal shooters. What was it you said about potential, now?

Back to my original point, what we see with Larry (and by extension, Lilly), is an unwillingness to change the status quo, even if the change has the potential to benefit their survival. We see this when we first meet them - the two of them being unwilling to help out Kenny and Lee even though it is eventually Lee who is capable of getting Larry his life-saving medication (which they were trying to get even before he had the heart attack), and again with Ben, who had information that would have possibly saved the entire group a lot of grief. (I can imagine had Lee and Kenny not been there, Lilly wouldn't even have tried to find who needed help in the woods, and by default would have been killed once Larry finally has his fatal heart attack and comes back as a Walker.)

[Jazzy]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

And Ben is barely more than a kid, having just had a traumatic event, and finding himself alone amongst a group of strangers. I don't think we can fault him for not considering that we might not know that everyone has the potential to become a Walker. In fact, he presumes that any group that's been around this long has to know this already. He really is the only reason that we know that all of the dead becomes walkers as soon as we do, which is helpful (no matter which way you want to swing it).

I'd also like to add here that we don't know that they would have worked out that the guy had not been bitten without Ben. They immediately presume that he must have been bitten and accuse Ben of not telling them this without even checking, if Ben had not been there I could quite easily see someone like Larry mouthing off at everyone for bringing back a 'bitten person', distracting them from actually checking to see if he had in fact been bitten as they argue about it, or presuming that the infection got into him via his open wounds (whereas Ben knows for definite since he saw someone who died with no open wounds and no known way of being infected).

[Cornson]

I don't get why you guys don't like Kenny anymore

He saved me when Larry knocked me down and left me for dead in the pharmacy.

He bought me the Time I needed to "save" David the Teacher from the bear trap.

He saved me when Danny pointed the rifle at me.

He only did what he did to Larry to make sure that the rest of the group wore safe.

He have always backed me up when Lilly or Larry made a fuss about "what ever".

+ He still have a fishing boat and wants queen Clem and me to join them on said boat!

[marcu5]

Originally Posted by Cornson

I don't get why you guys don't like Kenny anymore

He saved me when Larry knocked me down and left me for dead in the pharmacy.

He bought me the Time I needed to "save" David the Teacher from the bear trap.

He saved me when Danny pointed the rifle at me.

He only did what he did to Larry to make sure that the rest of the group wore safe.

He have always backed me up when Lilly or Larry made a fuss about "what ever".

+ He still have a fishing boat and wants queen Clem and me to join them on said boat!

he only helps you if you agree to kill larry, which i didn't agree with; just like i didn't agree with throwing duck to the wolves. you can agree with kenny 100% up until that point and kenny turns on you. he does not help you in the barn when danny points a rifle at you; he just waits.

thats why people are beginning to dislike kenny. he's proven that it's not about the group, just the safety of himself and his family. if don't kill someone until you know for certain if they've turned.

[Merc]

Me and Kenny are bros. He saved my life back at the pharmacy, and he gave me an excuse to knock off Larry in the best way possible: right in front of that stupid, smug, pathetic, hypocritical daughter of his. I wish she wasn't a character from the comic, as then I could hope that my actions would get her killed horrifically.

To reiterate: Bros4lyfe.

[marcu5]

Originally Posted by Merc

Me and Kenny are bros. He saved my life back at the pharmacy, and he gave me an excuse to knock off Larry in the best way possible: right in front of that stupid, smug, pathetic, hypocritical daughter of his. I wish she wasn't a character from the comic, as then I could hope that my actions would get her killed horrifically.

To reiterate: Bros4lyfe.

kenny sure as hell isn't my bro

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Jazzy

I'd also like to add here that we don't know that they would have worked out that the guy had not been bitten without Ben. They immediately presume that he must have been bitten and accuse Ben of not telling them this without even checking, if Ben had not been there I could quite easily see someone like Larry mouthing off at everyone for bringing back a 'bitten person', distracting them from actually checking to see if he had in fact been bitten as they argue about it, or presuming that the infection got into him via his open wounds (whereas Ben knows for definite since he saw someone who died with no open wounds and no known way of being infected).

I don't know about the younger kid, but the guy I brought back to camp was missing an entire leg. I know I would have just assumed that he had been bitten on his missing leg, and then got caught in the trap trying to flee from the Walkers (remembering that we only know that someone turns when they get bitten, not knowing that you can stop it if you sever the affected limb, like stated in the comics). So, that means that we would probably have found out at a time when it was less convenient (say like, if we failed to save Larry in the meat locker?). Thus (at least in my playthrough), Ben provided my group with useful information.

Even if you think the group would have eventually figured it out (which is almost a given), how long would it have taken? How many people would they have to encounter that died a "natural" death in order to connect the dots? What potential danger are they in NOT knowing this information, given that a member of their group was prone to deadly heart attacks? No matter what, Ben has provided useful information.

[Necrosoul]

Oh Kenny is helping by fixing the RV? Yes, you are right he is helping.... Himself. He even said as soon as I can fix the RV me and my family are leaving. How is that looking out for the group? Kenny can leave anytime he wants, but last time I checked he owned a truck not a RV. That means that RV belongs to the group not him. So so long good luck Kenny I hope you make it to your boat. I also hope you enjoy the WALK.

[YamiRaziel]

I'm so supporting this thread! F*** Kenny!

Because of him I deleted all my saves and started a new one, treating him as that asshole deserves to be treated.
He is no team player, he only cares about himself and his family. True, he will help you out if you are always backing him up, despite how unreasonable his arguments always are.
Lilly, however, is something else. She might be harsh sometimes but she thinks and ACTS the way I would. Also she is the only one having the guts to ration the food. Why doesn't Kenny do it if he is such a man? Also, he is always leaving Lee do the hard things! The only time he actually acted is when he killed Larry although Lee and Lilly could've revived him! If it was that annoying brat Duck would he smash his head so fast? Now as I think of it, when all thought Duck was bitten he wanted to defend him even though he wasn't sure of that. He didn't even bother to check before started arguing. That shows how much he cares for anyone except his family.

In my plays I will always be mean to him cause he doesn't deserve anything else. If I get the chance in the next episodes I'm so banishing him from the group. After all I'm the true leader of that group, the one that usually gets the job done.
Lilly cares about the group as a whole and knows how hard is to be a leader. Kenny knows nothing.

To all of you know defend Kenny I will say only this:
If you disagree with Kenny even once, he forgets everything else and he will leave you to die. Lilly saved me twice when I sided with her. But even if you usually do not side with her, she is forgiving and will still help you.
If you do not side with Kenny even once, he will abandon you. Do you really want such a friend?
Even Larry saves you despite the fact he hates your guts!
And Kenny doesn't even thank you when you saved his wife.
He is an ungrateful bastard and he will pay!
I'm team Lee and my allies shall be Carley, Lilly and Clem. Haven't made up my mind for Ben yet.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Necrosoul

Oh Kenny is helping by fixing the RV? Yes, you are right he is helping.... Himself. He even said as soon as I can fix the RV me and my family are leaving. How is that looking out for the group? Kenny can leave anytime he wants, but last time I checked he owned a truck not a RV. That means that RV belongs to the group not him. So so long good luck Kenny I hope you make it to your boat. I also hope you enjoy the WALK.

I don't believe he would leave anyone behind who wanted to go (within reason). I think it has more to do with the fact that he and Lily have been butting heads than he isn't concerned with the entire group.

What I think happened? Kenny thinks it's better to leave the Motor Inn (as a group), Lily thinks it is better to stay. So Kenny has decided that he and his family are going to leave regardless of what the rest of the group decides. I'm sure he'd take everyone with him if they wanted to go, hence why he is fixing up the motor home, and not just leaving in his truck (which, as far as we know, was already running. If he really was just concerned with just his family, why wouldn't he have just left in his working truck?).

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by marcu5

he only helps you if you agree to kill larry, which i didn't agree with; just like i didn't agree with throwing duck to the wolves. you can agree with kenny 100% up until that point and kenny turns on you. he does not help you in the barn when danny points a rifle at you; he just waits.

thats why people are beginning to dislike kenny. he's proven that it's not about the group, just the safety of himself and his family. if don't kill someone until you know for certain if they've turned.

This was ever a question? You truly didn't know that he would put his family first, or are you just getting pissy because he didn't risk his life to save you in the barn, when you proved to him that YOU are not concerned with the safety of the group?

We should already know that Kenny puts the safety of his family first. We can learn from talking to Katjaa that, driving through Atlanta, they passed up many people that they could have helped, presumably because Kenny was not willing to put his family at risk. Also, he puts himself in between Larry and his son, and fully expects to be mobbed by these people he doesn't know, willing to fight them until death to protect Duck. Finally, at the motor inn, he won't even think about accepting food until you've fed Duck. Hell, he even TELLS you that he will always put his family first, the same way that WE will always put CLEMENTINE first. (Be honest with yourself, how many people here would save Clementine over Kenny in ANY situation, even if he was the most selfless person in the group?) Every single person there is putting the people they consider to be family, first. Every time. So you can't fault Kenny for behaving this way.

For those of you who think he is putting himself ahead of Larry, I think you are judging him unfairly. He is concerned with not only himself, but also Lily, Lee, and Clementine, who are ALL trapped in the meat locker with the Walker Time Bomb (Larry). Kenny is the purely rational voice in that situation, and Lily is the emotional one (rightfully so). I've already discussed in the "Larry has his own support group" thread why killing Larry is definitely the more pragmatic choice. And if we break it down in the simplest of terms, according to Kenny, at the point you make the decision to side with Lily, you have decided to put Lily's (and possibly YOUR) emotional state over the direct safety of the group trapped in the meat locker. You are the one who doesn't have Kenny's back. Depending upon how you've played so far, it could be taken as a complete and utter betrayal. So why should Kenny risk himself to save your life, when you might be willing and capable of doing so again?

Is it a betrayal? No, but we are in an emotionally charged situation. Even after he kills Larry, he STILL has to escape and save his family. We know from Hershel's farm that he doesn't always behave rationally when he is panicked in such a manner. Notable, however, is the fact that once his family's safety is secured, he will always do what is morally right (he comes back to save Lee at the Drugstore, and also helps you to save the students and teacher in the woods).

Oddly enough, if the roles had been reversed, and it was Clementine who was trapped with the Cannibals, how many people here would choose to drop the salt block? Anybody here who says Kenny was acting out of character never really knew him in the first place.

[Jazzy]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

I don't know about the younger kid, but the guy I brought back to camp was missing an entire leg. I know I would have just assumed that he had been bitten on his missing leg, and then got caught in the trap trying to flee from the Walkers (remembering that we only know that someone turns when they get bitten, not knowing that you can stop it if you sever the affected limb, like stated in the comics). So, that means that we would probably have found out at a time when it was less convenient (say like, if we failed to save Larry in the meat locker?). Thus (at least in my playthrough), Ben provided my group with useful information.

Even if you think the group would have eventually figured it out (which is almost a given), how long would it have taken? How many people would they have to encounter that died a "natural" death in order to connect the dots? What potential danger are they in NOT knowing this information, given that a member of their group was prone to deadly heart attacks? No matter what, Ben has provided useful information.

Exactly, I had the same guy brought back, and having not read the comics or seen the tv show I was initially thinking that there was something on the trap that had infected him or something. It's better to have the information confirmed than be working on guesswork.

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

To all of you know defend Kenny I will say only this:
If you disagree with Kenny even once, he forgets everything else and he will leave you to die. Lilly saved me twice when I sided with her. But even if you usually do not side with her, she is forgiving and will still help you.
If you do not side with Kenny even once, he will abandon you. Do you really want such a friend?
Even Larry saves you despite the fact he hates your guts!
And Kenny doesn't even thank you when you saved his wife.
He is an ungrateful bastard and he will pay!
I'm team Lee and my allies shall be Carley, Lilly and Clem. Haven't made up my mind for Ben yet.

Actually, on the matter of Kenny forgetting everything else: there is another thread where we are discussing a possible glitch where a decision doesn't get carried over in regards to the discussion over Duck. It looks like siding with Kenny over Duck isn't noted in the second episode if you choose to shout down Larry into having a heart attack instead of telling Kenny to punch him, despite Kenny still calling you a good friend regardless when he comes to pick you up off the floor. I have two playthroughs that show this as one has Kenny still being friendly towards me and acknowledging that I chose him in the Duck argument, while the other he accuses me of trying to chuck Duck out. Perhaps this is what happened to you? Or maybe not, he does go quite extreme over the Larry situation.