Larry/Car Dilemma

[Awesoke]

For the sake of discussion and to satisfy my curiosity, I noticed I was in the minority to help kill Larry.

So if you were in the majority that tried to save Larry, did you end up stealing from the car at the end of the episode?

My take: I decided that the situation in the meat locker required us to kill Larry. Pragmatically, it was the correct choice in order to save as many lives as possible in that locker.

Now moving on to the car full of supplies. Logically we can assume it had not been there that long. Possibly the owner(s) left because of the empty tank. I chose not to steal from the car because I believed it was the right thing to do.

Clementine, who is idealistic and naive in a child's way, expresses it's wrong to steal something that's not yours. In my playthrough since episode one, I tried to be morally consistent. The only time I deviated from that was with Larry.

For those that did not kill Larry because you didn't want murder on your hands and then ended up stealing from the car (possibly ruining the owner's chances of survival), what was your reason? Why act humane towards someone who actively disliked you and tried to kill you but then have no problem possibly putting a stranger's life in jeopardy?

Edit: I'm not here condemning any of your decisions. It might have come off that way so I apologize. I was just curious and wanted serious discussion.

[Sisterofshane]

Lol, jokes on you!

I sided with Kenny, and looted the car. Morality means nothing if you are dead, and in order to live, I needed Larry to not be a Walker, and I needed to eat.

That Clementine has to have her innocence destroyed is my only regret.

[Awesoke]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Lol, jokes on you!

I sided with Kenny, and looted the car. Morality means nothing if you are dead, and in order to live, I needed Larry to not be a Walker, and I needed to eat.

That Clementine has to have her innocence destroyed is my only regret.

I have no problem with that. Personally I know I wouldn't survive in a zombie apocalypse. I wouldn't want to live in a world with savages who care only to keep themselves alive. The end of the world would probably mean the end of trustworthy individuals.

[zgamer]

I have been playing my Lee as the good guy so I tried to save Larry and refrained from looting. I think it shows a lot of character to have a guy who stands by an opinion even when it is unpopular, so I think it creates an interesting dynamic. Plus I cannot bring myself to ruin Clementine more than Kenny and the others have already tried. She is just too awesome and sweet.

Yes you can say morality does not matter at the end of the day, but then why would everyone agree it is wrong to eat Mark? If morality does not matter and survival is the main thing to focus on, then none of them would have reacted to them doing that if the St. John's had better explained why it was necessary right? Clearly cannibalism is viewed as "bad" whether it was someone who was close to them or not, so some degree of morality is still present even in a post apocalypse.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Awesoke

I have no problem with that. Personally I know I wouldn't survive in a zombie apocalypse. I wouldn't want to live in a world with savages who care only to keep themselves alive. The end of the world would probably mean the end of trustworthy individuals.

I don't know about that. I haven't devolved Lee's character into an animal, yet.

He takes care of Clementine, and tries his hardest to explain his actions to her. He also knows that children take priority over women, who take priority over Men. If we aren't fighting for them to have a future, what are we fighting for?

I try to save everyone I meet. We need to be able to rely upon each other for help and support in this trying time. Hence why eating other people is wrong, even if for survival. If that is what it takes to live, that is when I agree with you and I feel it is better to just not worry about it anymore.

Also, I choose not to judge people on single incidences, especially when we are in testing circumstances. Larry, for example, may be a selfish prick, but I try not to hold it against him. Same with Lily. I always try to view my life through their perspective, and be understanding. I just won't let certain things trump my immediate survival.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by zgamer

I have been playing my Lee as the good guy so I tried to save Larry and refrained from looting. I think it shows a lot of character to have a guy who stands by an opinion even when it is unpopular, so I think it creates an interesting dynamic. Plus I cannot bring myself to ruin Clementine more than Kenny and the others have already tried. She is just too awesome and sweet.

Yes you can say morality does not matter at the end of the day, but then why would everyone agree it is wrong to eat Mark? If morality does not matter and survival is the main thing to focus on, then none of them would have reacted to them doing that if the St. John's had better explained why it was necessary right? Clearly cannibalism is viewed as "bad" whether it was someone who was close to them or not, so some degree of morality is still present even in a post apocalypse.

It's not so much a savage loss of morality, but "ruthless calculus". Certain things for me will always be off the table (eating people). Some situations allow for a deft touch, and we should always take the moral road when we can. That being said, if you refuse to take the food, and someone's family member dies from lack of it, are they really going to care that you stood by your morals?

The apocalypse is going to press people pretty hard when it comes to the balance between maintaining integrity and surviving. The cold hard truth is that if we want our posterity to ever have a chance of returning to a state of normalcy, we may have to make the hard decisions now.

[Zeruis]

What I did is save Larry and did not steal from the car. As much as I hate him, Larry deserved a chance. Also, I didn't steal from the car because I was afraid at what kind of consequences it might bring. I side with Clem.

[zgamer]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

It's not so much a savage loss of morality, but "ruthless calculus". Certain things for me will always be off the table (eating people). Some situations allow for a deft touch, and we should always take the moral road when we can. That being said, if you refuse to take the food, and someone's family member dies from lack of it, are they really going to care that you stood by your morals?

The apocalypse is going to press people pretty hard when it comes to the balance between maintaining integrity and surviving. The cold hard truth is that if we want our posterity to ever have a chance of returning to a state of normalcy, we may have to make the hard decisions now.

Well that being said, how would you like it if you left your car for some reason and came back to find it had been completely ransacked? That is the part that makes the decision compelling but not hard for me. We always talk about survival and integrity, but it is always seems easy to make dickish choices until someone makes a dickish choice to you. That is when people present a hypocrisy in themselves (kind of like what happened with Kenny in the meat locker when he is put in Larry's position from episode 1). Do we just say, "No worries man, you just wanted to survive so I can respect that"? You would have to be a very strange person to do that.

I understand self preservation and hard calculus, but there is also forward thinking that must be applied. When you put yourself in the other person's shoes, the choice to screw someone else over is suddenly not so simple.

That said, we still do not know if the person who owned the car was still alive or not yet so that is what makes this discussion kind of fun

[greenj2]

I tried to save Larry in the meat locker, but I don't believe it was necessarily the 'right' thing to do. Kenny did the right thing for the wrong reasons (survival), I did the wrong thing for the right reasons (compassion). I doubt we'll ever know who made the right call, so I don't condemn Kenny for doing what he did. His motives however, are certainly questionable. I think he'd sacrifice any group member in the name of his family.

As for the car, I took the supplies because while I didn't know what happened to the owners, I knew to a certainty that my group was starving/wounded and likely wouldn't survive much longer without them.

If the supplies belonged to bandits or the owners never came back, then no harm, no foul. Though there's just as much chance that the owners are decent folk and it was morally the wrong thing to do.

Bottom line is, I'm more willing to take that chance in the name of looking after the group and Clem than not. I couldn't live with watching them starve and die because I couldn't make a difficult decision and placed my own moral righteousness above their survival. I'd gladly roll the dice and loot that hoodie than watch Clem shivering in the cold.

Her innocent perspective of right and wrong is beautiful in it's purity, but few things in life are ever that simple. Which is also what makes the dilemmas in this game so effing fantastic.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by zgamer

Well that being said, how would you like it if you left your car for some reason and came back to find it had been completely ransacked? That is the part that makes the decision compelling but not hard for me. We always talk about survival and integrity, but it is always seems easy to make dickish choices until someone makes a dickish choice to you. That is when people present a hypocrisy in themselves (kind of like what happened with Kenny in the meat locker when he is put in Larry's position from episode 1). Do we just say, "No worries man, you just wanted to survive so I can respect that"? You would have to be a very strange person to do that.

I understand self preservation and hard calculus, but there is also forward thinking that must be applied. When you put yourself in the other person's shoes, the choice to screw someone else over is suddenly not so simple.

That said, we still do not know if the person who owned the car was still alive or not yet so that is what makes this discussion kind of fun

Well, of course I would feel bad - just like I felt bad that trusting Mark to strangers ultimately led to his death. But I wouldn't be able to deny that it was at least (in part), my fault those things happened. It's what happens when you are unprepared. If you were the owners, however, would you HONESTLY blame whoever took your stuff? (BTW, if they are WATCHING you take it, and they are too afraid to stop you, then they are not very smart. Listening to what was said, it's obvious there are some that don't want to take it. Step out and reveal yourself, and some good might come of a bad situation! You risk starving to death with out it, or being killed by people taking it...risk assessment comes out equal).

I don't advocate behaving like the Bandits - anarchy is NOT a good thing, and in the long run it is not going to help you. Also, if I found the owners, I would do everything in my power to make it up to them (the hoodie you give to Clem might be recognized by someone later - that ought to be fun!).

[Tassadarh]

Personally I think the "Car Dilemma" is non existent. You ARE starving. One of your own is wounded... and when you find a DELIBERATE abandoned car filled with food in the woods you EVEN ask yourself if you should take the supplies?

Are half of your companion nuts?

The car is without gas, open and with the keys in it. You yell for someone and no one answer... The most logical answer is "this car now belongs to no one". The owner is either dead (have you read the comics? This situation reminds me of something) or took how many supplies as possible and left. If he's still alive he should have stayed in the vicinity of the car! Leaving it unguarded (at least write a note!) it's like putting a "serve yourself" sign.

Really aside from the kids (which for them being irrational is reasonable) I was quite amazed by others (wait... I recall just Lilly ranting for it, which is quite hypocritical since she would gladly left people to die eaten alive than take food from a abandoned car...)

[Vold]

Originally Posted by Awesoke

For those that did not kill Larry because you didn't want murder on your hands and then ended up stealing from the car (possibly ruining the owner's chances of survival), what was your reason? Why act humane towards someone who actively disliked you and tried to kill you but then have no problem possibly putting a stranger's life in jeopardy?

Here's a video of "saving" Larry & not looting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JOIW_yv5M

reason I chose that?
because I know people like Larry I've met people who are known to be disliked by others & they seem normal to me when I talk to them.

even people who are mean to me I just treat them like normal. Lee just got a rep that made it harder to get along with him

If it were not for his heart condition, its possible for Larry to tolerate Lee's presence, maybe not forget his rep but let him be & keep an eye on him just the same.

As for not looting...
I am the servant of Queen Clem, lol
seriously, I'm following what she thinks is right.

even at the farm, I said I must consult with the Ms.

[WadeTheButcher]

*double post"

[WadeTheButcher]

Screw Larry, he was dead either way, plus it makes your bond with Kenny more solid. Kenny fixed his truck, fixes the RV and has a boat and that's where we'll eventually end up. Lilly has offered nothing but a bad attitude and her father was a useless old man with a bad heart. Both of them caused tension in the group and offer nothing.

I follow Clem then Kenny, although I chose not to steal from the car, it did nothing to my relationship with Kenny or anyone else, but made me look moral to Clem. The car belongs to the next character to join the group I assume, so starting off on the right foot is a good idea.

Larry was dead, so we didn't murder him. I don't know why saying that wasn't an option. On a side note, why can't I give Doug the walkie talkie to fix? As soon as I found out it was broken I thought of that, so why not Lee?

[Vold]

Originally Posted by WadeTheButcher

Screw Larry, he was dead either way, plus it makes your bond with Kenny more solid. Kenny fixed his truck, fixes the RV and has a boat and that's where we'll eventually end up. Lilly has offered nothing but a bad attitude and her father was a useless old man with a bad heart. Both of them caused tension in the group and offer nothing.

I follow Clem then Kenny, although I chose not to steal from the car, it did nothing to my relationship with Kenny or anyone else, but made me look moral to Clem. The car belongs to the next character to join the group I assume, so starting off on the right foot is a good idea.

Larry was dead, so we didn't murder him. I don't know why saying that wasn't an option. On a side note, why can't I give Doug the walkie talkie to fix? As soon as I found out it was broken I thought of that, so why not Lee?

Even doctors need to confirm they're dead & that they can't do anything before stating the "time of death"

Kenny could had waited standing over the head with that saltlick, lol
j/k

I just wonder if or why can't we get the airconditioning off first shot. Never tried it, was it possible? Did Larry argue over handing over his coins?


btw as for the walkie, I believe u get it repaired in Ep 1...
not sure u can do that in Ep2 if wasn't done in Ep 1

Even if its fixed, they dun have the other (do they?)

[Lone_Wanderer]

Looted the car at first, but then Clem gave me that heartbroken look of hers.. and I just had to reload and pass on free supplies

Without Clem behind my back, I would loot that car for sure tho. In zombie apokalypse, its dog eat dog / shoot first, ask later.
So I guess Clem is all that is between me and being a selfish asshole. Funny that as I take care of her, she takes care of my karma.

Tried to save Larry ofc. Even though that guy is a prick, I kinda felt sorry for him in this episode ( he lost his wife and pretty much everything ) + I had my nose stuck deep down Lillys fine ass ( come on, she kinda hot.. in that postapokalypse way ).

I can definetly see Kennys point. All he cares about is his family and thats alright. I cant ask anyone to be a fearless, selfless hero.
Lilly seems to me like a "better" person. She can be little bitchy and headstrong at times, but she cares about other people and when shit hits the fan, she can be more reasonable then Kenny, for sure.

I just hope Lilly wont leave us in next episode.. that would suck.

[Soldier660]

see ! Larry was only looking for Lilly like me on Clem he is just more serious and angry ! this confirm when mark say that to him and he say... " Aww... Right " He its not a bad guy ! and Kenny was totally wrong at that point, he got desesperate and everything ! he too its not a bad guy but make a big mistake killling Larry ! who was alive ! Kenny was only looking over he family over everything else !
About the car, Clem was right we are not robbers, that car was very recenty and just see and stole everything from others people ? Nah ! Clem was right ! and if you stole you will force she use that hoodie what she not own and dont like it ! Fail of you part !

[Fabrimuch]

At first I chose to steal from the car, but after seeing how gleefully Lee was going through those supplies I was feeling like shit and had to reload my save to choose not to steal from the car.

Not that it mattered much, because the rest of the group ended up stealing the rest anyway, even Lilly, who gave me that bitchy look when I tried looting it at first.

My only regret is having killed one of the brothers (the one trapped in a bear trap) in front of Clementine. Though I did leave the second one to the zombies .

[Lone_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Fabrimuch

even Lilly, who gave me that bitchy look when I tried looting it at first.

To be fair, you dont actually see her in the cutscene. She might be standing on the other side, watching them stealing supplies, just like Lee and Clem did.

[DreadFyre]

I did what I thought was best for the survival of the group in both situations. Larry had a heart condition; he was dead. I sided Kenny because it had to be done, whether or not I wanted to.

The car was abandoned, door open, without gas, keys left in the ignition and no one in shouting distance to hear. I felt it was the best action to take the food and survive. If it was someone else's food why did they choose to leave it in those circumstances? They could have done any of the following: taken the keys, closed the door, moved it to the side or covered the food.

Both choices I made I tried to condone what I did to Clementine. That was the hardest part.

I also killed both brothers, but looking back I could have gone either way.