Telltale Games

Trilobyte · 08/19/2012, 06:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyreen

Mark was a yes man, who curried favor with whomever was closest and created conflict, as evidenced by his parroting Lee to Larry. He caved to Lee's opinion every time. He seemed nice only because he was agreeable.

We didn't see anywhere near enough of his personality to make that kind of assessment of his character. I agree that he was pretty ready to jump on opportunities to put his foot in his mouth, but if the personal shortcomings you listed were his worst character traits he'd still be better than almost everyone else in the group. I still say we never got to know him well enough to judge him very effectively, though. He created a slight discomfort and potential conflict but not on purpose--he sure didn't seem to be trying to throw Lee under the bus to me. He may have seemed nice to you only because he was agreeable, but I found a bit more than that in his personality. I mean, you called him a yes man and at the same time say he created conflict. Yes men don't create conflict--they just kiss ass and go along. He was taking initiative (like volunteering info to the cannibal family which was a total idiot move imo) which is nowhere near yes man territory. They don't take initiative ever.

Anyway, I wasn't saying that Mark was the best character (that would be Clem imo) or that he was perfect. I was asking (at least half rhetorically) if Ben could possibly be a better character for the main cast than him considering what we've seen of them both. You didn't answer that, but I'd be interested to hear what you think about it. I think I'm pretty clear on how you feel about Mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyreen

As to the second part quoted, are you really willing to chow down on your only medical expertise because she doesn't meet your esthetic preferences?

Where did that come from? It seems you decided on 100% pure speculation that I:

A) Care about how attractive/unattractive I find any of the characters in this game,
B) Find Katja unattractive, and
C) Am so shallow I'd kill someone because I don't like the way they look.

Well, wrong on all accounts but what you typed certainly gives everyone a window into the way your own mind works. Assumptions just made an ass out of u.

Cyreen · 08/19/2012, 07:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trilobyte

...but if the personal shortcomings you listed were his worst character traits he'd still be better than almost everyone else in the group.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had a crush.

By all means, please explain why you decided Katjaa, the closest thing to a doctor they have, is expendable.

Square-Bubble · 08/21/2012, 03:04 pm

Mark still actually managed to become one of my favorite characters in the short time he was in-game and I was actually pretty saddened by his death D;

Zeruis · 08/21/2012, 03:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Square-Bubble

Mark still actually managed to become one of my favorite characters in the short time he was in-game and I was actually pretty saddened by his death D;

Same here. He single-handedly did save your group, though.

Milosuperspesh · 08/21/2012, 03:29 pm

imo other media outlets bring in 'cannon fodder' all the time, games are no different.

mark was well made/acted/rendered..

Cyreen · 08/21/2012, 07:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeruis

Same here. He single-handedly did save your group, though.

How do you figure?

Zeruis · 08/21/2012, 08:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyreen

How do you figure?

He took down Brenda as a walker. Brenda was going to kill both Katjaa and Lee, if not for the others after. If the two of them had died, Kenny probably would have died and there would likely not have been someone to stand up to him.

Bauhaus · 08/21/2012, 10:46 pm

I can kind of overlook gratuitously introducing new characters to serve as cannon fodder... provided it doesn't become a habit. What really gets me about episode 2 is how we're never given the option of sending someone along with Mark while he's being "treated." Especially with how painfully obvious it is that we need to keep our guard up around this family.

"Who's your leader?"
"Ain't tellin'."

"How many of you are there?"
"Lots."

"Who's your leader, again?"
"You lookin' to get pitchforked?"

But the second Mark gets wounded we get hit by a truckload of stupid and hand him over in a heartbeat. Never mind that we have a member with actual medical training (who never bothers checking on the patient), Ma St. John's got an apron, that means she's both trustworthy *and* capable! Why don't we give them our guns while we're at it? What's that? We're not allowed to go in to see our friend? Oh, ok then. We'll just hang around outside all day snoopin' for clues WHILE YOU HOLD ONE OF US CAPTIVE.

It's the zombie apocalypse, for Christ's sake... the second a stranger tries to keep you from your buddy, it's gun-to-the-face time. No discussion.

Awesome execution. Very sloppy writing.

Clord · 08/21/2012, 11:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauhaus

I can kind of overlook gratuitously introducing new characters to serve as cannon fodder... provided it doesn't become a habit. What really gets me about episode 2 is how we're never given the option of sending someone along with Mark while he's being "treated." Especially with how painfully obvious it is that we need to keep our guard up around this family.

"Who's your leader?"
"Ain't tellin'."

"How many of you are there?"
"Lots."

"Who's your leader, again?"
"You lookin' to get pitchforked?"

But the second Mark gets wounded we get hit by a truckload of stupid and hand him over in a heartbeat. Never mind that we have a member with actual medical training (who never bothers checking on the patient), Ma St. John's got an apron, that means she's both trustworthy *and* capable! Why don't we give them our guns while we're at it? What's that? We're not allowed to go in to see our friend? Oh, ok then. We'll just hang around outside all day snoopin' for clues WHILE YOU HOLD ONE OF US CAPTIVE.

It's the zombie apocalypse, for Christ's sake... the second a stranger tries to keep you from your buddy, it's gun-to-the-face time. No discussion.

Awesome execution. Very sloppy writing.

Actually, that so trustworthy "medic" in the party specializes to animals, not to humans. She probably felt that St John's Farm has more experienced person for treating humans.

Master of Aeons · 08/22/2012, 12:03 am

If I were really in that situation - not thinking as the product of media that I am, I'd be hanging out with the rational brother and saying stuff like "Man, your brother's crazy. I think we should all watch ourselves around him. Put my arm in the cuff? Oh, okay. Anyway, he shot this girl and I don't like the look of him. Say, what's the bonesaw for?"

Bauhaus · 08/22/2012, 12:05 am

Never called her a medic, said she has medical training. Veterinary medicine is still better than none.

And let's assume for a moment that there's an inkling of sense behind your statement (never mind where you got that idea from) -- hell, let's say there's an experienced surgeon in that house who specializes in plucking arrows from shoulders -- the point is YOU DO NOT HAND YOUR PEOPLE OVER TO TOTAL STRANGERS. If he's gotta go, you send him with at least 1 well-armed and astute individual to watch over him at all times. And you keep it that way until those strangers have earned your trust.

Seriously, has no one ever read the comic?

Trust is at the core of the plot for both episodes: who do you trust, and how much? How much do others trust you? It's what every decision you make hinges on, and it, in turn, is what gets affected by those decisions. In episode 2, the one truly important decision gets made for us, and we have to play along pretending to be total idiots.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I can only suspend so much disbelief.

Master of Aeons · 08/22/2012, 02:24 am

I agree with your logic, but this group should still be a little trusting when it comes to strangers. They don't know they're in the world of The Walking Dead, where most everyone is crazy from the shit they go through and would eat them or steal their safe haven. Rick learned to treat an ambassador as a prisoner BECAUSE of the things he's gone through trusting people. Before that he was even more trusting than this group. He spent a while (longer in the show) refusing to believe he was being betrayed even.

We're all genre savvy (to quote TVtropes), most all of us saw this coming. It's not suspending your disbelief to believe that intelligent people do stupid things when they're desperate and put trust in people who throw up signs they should notice.

Hudomonkey · 08/26/2012, 03:07 am

I liked Mark and felt lots of gratitude for the food and also liked his character
And without Mark it wouldn't have felt like 3 months had passed still...
They should have killed someone other than Mark

TheWildcard · 08/26/2012, 06:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauhaus

Never called her a medic, said she has medical training. Veterinary medicine is still better than none.

And let's assume for a moment that there's an inkling of sense behind your statement (never mind where you got that idea from) -- hell, let's say there's an experienced surgeon in that house who specializes in plucking arrows from shoulders -- the point is YOU DO NOT HAND YOUR PEOPLE OVER TO TOTAL STRANGERS. If he's gotta go, you send him with at least 1 well-armed and astute individual to watch over him at all times. And you keep it that way until those strangers have earned your trust.

Seriously, has no one ever read the comic?

Trust is at the core of the plot for both episodes: who do you trust, and how much? How much do others trust you? It's what every decision you make hinges on, and it, in turn, is what gets affected by those decisions. In episode 2, the one truly important decision gets made for us, and we have to play along pretending to be total idiots.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I can only suspend so much disbelief.

Good I'm not the only one bugged by this. They gave us every reason not to trust these folks out the door and then force decisions that show trust. It really broke immersion and I never got into the game...

Milosuperspesh · 08/26/2012, 07:10 am

immersion ?

how many tv /films/ other games have you played/watched that do the exact samething ?

Rock114 · 08/26/2012, 08:25 am

I was pretty on the fence about them until after the camp, playing it safe. Mark was kind of an idiot when we first arrived at the farm, but I think he's more of the "speak before they think" type of people. No malicious intent or kissassing, just not the brightest. He grew on me, but wasn't surprised it was him that got killed off by the cannibals. I'm actually pretty sure I saw Katjaa go with Brenda to help Mark when the everyone else arrived after Mark got shot. After the wound was treated and Mark was stabilized, she probably thought Brenda could handle taking care of him from then on.

08/21/2012, 03:29 pm	#45
Milosuperspesh V3.0 The shining Join Date: May 2011 Location: Wai soh Sirius ? Posts: 3,314	imo other media outlets bring in 'cannon fodder' all the time, games are no different. mark was well made/acted/rendered.. __________________ https://www.facebook.com/pages/KIQCS/311661538927832 I am Sir Milo of Smeg https://www.facebook.com/#!/SaveCarley My soul tastes like butterscotch pudding Mentored by Mr flibble Sorry the aloe vera ran out for those burns.

08/26/2012, 07:10 am	#55
Milosuperspesh V3.0 The shining Join Date: May 2011 Location: Wai soh Sirius ? Posts: 3,314	immersion ? how many tv /films/ other games have you played/watched that do the exact samething ? __________________ https://www.facebook.com/pages/KIQCS/311661538927832 I am Sir Milo of Smeg https://www.facebook.com/#!/SaveCarley My soul tastes like butterscotch pudding Mentored by Mr flibble Sorry the aloe vera ran out for those burns.

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08/21/2012, 03:04 pm	#43
Square-Bubble Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4	Mark still actually managed to become one of my favorite characters in the short time he was in-game and I was actually pretty saddened by his death D;

08/21/2012, 10:46 pm	#48
Bauhaus Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4	I can kind of overlook gratuitously introducing new characters to serve as cannon fodder... provided it doesn't become a habit. What really gets me about episode 2 is how we're never given the option of sending someone along with Mark while he's being "treated." Especially with how painfully obvious it is that we need to keep our guard up around this family. "Who's your leader?" "Ain't tellin'." "How many of you are there?" "Lots." "Who's your leader, again?" "You lookin' to get pitchforked?" But the second Mark gets wounded we get hit by a truckload of stupid and hand him over in a heartbeat. Never mind that we have a member with actual medical training (who never bothers checking on the patient), Ma St. John's got an apron, that means she's both trustworthy and capable! Why don't we give them our guns while we're at it? What's that? We're not allowed to go in to see our friend? Oh, ok then. We'll just hang around outside all day snoopin' for clues WHILE YOU HOLD ONE OF US CAPTIVE. It's the zombie apocalypse, for Christ's sake... the second a stranger tries to keep you from your buddy, it's gun-to-the-face time. No discussion. Awesome execution. Very sloppy writing.

08/22/2012, 12:03 am	#50
Master of Aeons Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,688	If I were really in that situation - not thinking as the product of media that I am, I'd be hanging out with the rational brother and saying stuff like "Man, your brother's crazy. I think we should all watch ourselves around him. Put my arm in the cuff? Oh, okay. Anyway, he shot this girl and I don't like the look of him. Say, what's the bonesaw for?"

08/22/2012, 12:05 am	#51
Bauhaus Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4	Never called her a medic, said she has medical training. Veterinary medicine is still better than none. And let's assume for a moment that there's an inkling of sense behind your statement (never mind where you got that idea from) -- hell, let's say there's an experienced surgeon in that house who specializes in plucking arrows from shoulders -- the point is YOU DO NOT HAND YOUR PEOPLE OVER TO TOTAL STRANGERS. If he's gotta go, you send him with at least 1 well-armed and astute individual to watch over him at all times. And you keep it that way until those strangers have earned your trust. Seriously, has no one ever read the comic? Trust is at the core of the plot for both episodes: who do you trust, and how much? How much do others trust you? It's what every decision you make hinges on, and it, in turn, is what gets affected by those decisions. In episode 2, the one truly important decision gets made for us, and we have to play along pretending to be total idiots. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I can only suspend so much disbelief.

08/22/2012, 02:24 am	#52
Master of Aeons Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,688	I agree with your logic, but this group should still be a little trusting when it comes to strangers. They don't know they're in the world of The Walking Dead, where most everyone is crazy from the shit they go through and would eat them or steal their safe haven. Rick learned to treat an ambassador as a prisoner BECAUSE of the things he's gone through trusting people. Before that he was even more trusting than this group. He spent a while (longer in the show) refusing to believe he was being betrayed even. We're all genre savvy (to quote TVtropes), most all of us saw this coming. It's not suspending your disbelief to believe that intelligent people do stupid things when they're desperate and put trust in people who throw up signs they should notice.

08/26/2012, 03:07 am	#53
Hudomonkey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 560	I liked Mark and felt lots of gratitude for the food and also liked his character And without Mark it wouldn't have felt like 3 months had passed still... They should have killed someone other than Mark

08/26/2012, 08:25 am	#56
Rock114 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: U.S. of A. Posts: 1,780	I was pretty on the fence about them until after the camp, playing it safe. Mark was kind of an idiot when we first arrived at the farm, but I think he's more of the "speak before they think" type of people. No malicious intent or kissassing, just not the brightest. He grew on me, but wasn't surprised it was him that got killed off by the cannibals. I'm actually pretty sure I saw Katjaa go with Brenda to help Mark when the everyone else arrived after Mark got shot. After the wound was treated and Mark was stabilized, she probably thought Brenda could handle taking care of him from then on.