Meat Locker Dilemma

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by jaybreezy

So.. You're reasoning for choosing to help Larry is because the game isn't programmed that way lol, and if it was you would start over?? Seriously? I'm playing the game through on my initial reactions and not making decisions with thoughts of "starting over". So, Larry has a chance of turning into a walker then he's done. In other words, in my game the "what if's" that you mentioned are very important.

I couldn't do that... My Lee was siding with Lilly and becoming more and more estranged from Kenny. Plus what she tells you when you talk to her about her dad (before opening the barn)... And losing Mark... My Lee wasn't about to lose another one of His Own if he could help it. He's basically decided at this point that "We don't kill our own". Larry was an Asshole, sure, but they had been living together for 3 months and my Lee understood why he was such an ass.
How could Kenny just smash in the guys head, he's been with him for 3 Months. Yeah, Larry tries to kill you the first day he met you. but my Lee gave him the Axe and he did try to save Lee with it. (Being an Ass the entire way, but still.)... If even Larry won't stand by and watch Lee die, what kind of a man does Kenny have to be to jump the gun on killing Larry?
Lee gets the need for it, but to do that in front of Lilly and Clem... Without even letting enough time pass for more than 5 attempts (Technically 4, the 5th is postmortem no matter how fast you are.)... That, with the fact he ran over people in the initial outbreak, left Shane to die, and all of his other cowardly acts...

My Lee can't trust him anymore, hell My Lee is starting to wonder if the REAL reason Kenny smashed Larry's head in was because of him wanting to toss Duck out.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Death689God

I couldn't do that... My Lee was siding with Lilly and becoming more and more estranged from Kenny. Plus what she tells you when you talk to her about her dad (before opening the barn)... And losing Mark... My Lee wasn't about to lose another one of His Own if he could help it. He's basically decided at this point that "We don't kill our own". Larry was an Asshole, sure, but they had been living together for 3 months and my Lee understood why he was such an ass.
How could Kenny just smash in the guys head, he's been with him for 3 Months. Yeah, Larry tries to kill you the first day he met you. but my Lee gave him the Axe and he did try to save Lee with it. (Being an Ass the entire way, but still.)... If even Larry won't stand by and watch Lee die, what kind of a man does Kenny have to be to jump the gun on killing Larry?
Lee gets the need for it, but to do that in front of Lilly and Clem... Without even letting enough time pass for more than 5 attempts (Technically 4, the 5th is postmortem no matter how fast you are.)... That, with the fact he ran over people in the initial outbreak, left Shane to die, and all of his other cowardly acts...

My Lee can't trust him anymore, hell My Lee is starting to wonder if the REAL reason Kenny smashed Larry's head in was because of him wanting to toss Duck out.

I tend to agree. In that scenario, I would've insisted that at a minimum, Lilly use her belt as a restraint as a just in case safety precaution if Larry did start to reanimate, between that and the people in the room the situation would've been relatively safe and manageable. If nothing else, theoretically, you still need to live with these people and try to maintain some degree of trust so you don't end up as a friendly fire "accident" or what have you - prematurely killing her last remaining family member without even making the attempt hardly seemed like the way to accomplish that (especially since she's the last remaining member of the group with any combat training, etc.)

Between the two, being on good terms with Lilly strikes me as the better option than Kenny. She's been far more predictable and stable, in short, she's more reliable.

I also question Kenny's motivation for doing the deed myself. I'm of the view that he saw time spent on trying to save Larry as time that wasn't being spent on getting out and saving his family, so the old guy had to go. He was pretty clearly impatient from the meat locker onward.

[Walker#1]

Originally Posted by jaybreezy

So.. You're reasoning for choosing to help Larry is because the game isn't programmed that way lol, and if it was you would start over?? Seriously? I'm playing the game through on my initial reactions and not making decisions with thoughts of "starting over". So, Larry has a chance of turning into a walker then he's done. In other words, in my game the "what if's" that you mentioned are very important.

Have you read my whole posting or just the the bottom half? I too play the game through my initial reactions, and for my reasoning for this particular situation.. I thought I had clearly marked them as #1 and #2. As for the text you quoted, what I wanted to get at is.. these IFs and WHATs everyone here is talking about (for example, someone wrote: "I would always kill him because if he turns... bla and so on") don't mean anything to me (I don't mean the IFs and WHATs you wager whilst playing). Because him turning however you play it just isn't happening so all of these discussions about how fucked the group inside the meat locker would be if he gets zombified is (atleast for me) totally meaningless. And what I meant with "I would probably instantly play that chapter again and choose otherwise" is that depending on which character would be bitten by zombified Larry I would PROBABLY (either I'm missing something or probably is the new "definitely", atleast thats how it sounds in your reply.. that I definitely would restart the chapter, but my decision-making isn't THAT black and white). If, in our make-believe story that Larry got zombified, for example Clementine or Lily would get bitten by him, there would be no arguing with my inner self over how to proceed. In that situation I would for sure replay the chapter and choose otherwise. Why? Because Clementine is for now my most favorable character in the game, Lily comes in 2nd to her.

Hope everythings cleared up now?! :-)

Originally Posted by Death689God

I couldn't do that... My Lee was siding with Lilly and becoming more and more estranged from Kenny. Plus...

Thats how I see it too! I don't trust Kenny definitely anymore, because in almost every occasion he left my Lee hanging, except the only one where Lee gets knocked flat by Larry and Kenny helps him up. But for me he lost my trust completely after the fight with Andy (or was it his brother?!) in the barn after the meat-locker incidents. I (Lee) could have been killed if it weren't for Lily who came to help him. Kenny? He was all big talk a minute ago and then just when Lee needed him he was cowering and laying low profile inside the stable. For me that was the decisive moment from now on never ever to trust Kenny again with something valuable as someone elses or my own life. Because in that moment I think he showed his true fragile character. I don't doubt that he would go to any length and safe his family from anything, but, that obviously doesn't count for others. And the glance that Lee gave him right after the fight, well, I just think Lee knows that to.

[jaybreezy]

Originally Posted by Walker#1

Thats how I see it too! I don't trust Kenny definitely anymore, because in almost every occasion he left my Lee hanging, except the only one where Lee gets knocked flat by Larry and Kenny helps him up. But for me he lost my trust completely after the fight with Andy (or was it his brother?!) in the barn after the meat-locker incidents. I (Lee) could have been killed if it weren't for Lily who came to help him. Kenny? He was all big talk a minute ago and then just when Lee needed him he was cowering and laying low profile inside the stable. For me that was the decisive moment from now on never ever to trust Kenny again with something valuable as someone elses or my own life. Because in that moment I think he showed his true fragile character. I don't doubt that he would go to any length and safe his family from anything, but, that obviously doesn't count for others. And the glance that Lee gave him right after the fight, well, I just think Lee knows that to.

And there's another difference. In my game, I sided with Kenny so he came to my rescue and Lilly left me hanging so I could say the same thing you just said, only about Lilly.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by jaybreezy

And there's another difference. In my game, I sided with Kenny so he came to my rescue and Lilly left me hanging so I could say the same thing you just said, only about Lilly.

Actually, the irony is that even when you side with him Kenny's unreliable, since his plan was to have Lee bring up the rear if anything happened, instead, you end up taking point.

Likewise, I could hardly blame Lilly for not wanting to go out of her way to save you, since as far as she's concerned, you just murdered her last remaining family member. Kinda different. Hell, if it were me in that situation, you'd be a friendly-fire casualty first chance I had "Whoops, sorry, I was trying to hit Andy, honest".

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by jaybreezy

And there's another difference. In my game, I sided with Kenny so he came to my rescue and Lilly left me hanging so I could say the same thing you just said, only about Lilly.

Honestly, I think someone not saving you after you held her back while someone smashed her Father's, whom she truly believed had a chance, head in... That FAR more understandable than someone leaving you to die for disagreeing with his plan to murder someone, whom we don't know was truly dead yet.

I made another play through, where you side with Kenny and his family thoroughly, (I'm talking giving his family all the food you can), calling him the leader, having his back at every turn, and that ONE THING is enough for him to leave you out to dry. Imagine that, imagine what kind of person would sit and watch a "friend", that's had his back for 3 months, be killed right in front of him JUST because he disagreed with him on ONE thing!

Lilly might not save you, but she still protects Clem and she still Carries the Food (Despite not wanting to take it), regardless of what side you choose.

Lilly leaving me hanging: Understandable.
Kenny leaving me hanging: Betrayal.

[jaybreezy]

Originally Posted by Death689God

Honestly, I think someone not saving you after you held her back while someone smashed her Father's, whom she truly believed had a chance, head in... That FAR more understandable than someone leaving you to die for disagreeing with his plan to murder someone, whom we don't know was truly dead yet.

I made another play through, where you side with Kenny and his family thoroughly, (I'm talking giving his family all the food you can), calling him the leader, having his back at every turn, and that ONE THING is enough for him to leave you out to dry. Imagine that, imagine what kind of person would sit and watch a "friend", that's had his back for 3 months, be killed right in front of him JUST because he disagreed with him on ONE thing!

Lilly might not save you, but she still protects Clem and she still Carries the Food (Despite not wanting to take it), regardless of what side you choose.

Lilly leaving me hanging: Understandable.
Kenny leaving me hanging: Betrayal.

I hear you but what I'm saying is that in my game.. My playthrough Kenny has my back so I don't see him as the guy that some of you see him as. He helped me in the pharmacy when Larry knocked me out, and he saved me in the barn so the problems you guys have with Kenny I'm not having in my playthrough. So I'm gonna have his back for as long as he has mine.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by jaybreezy

I hear you but what I'm saying is that in my game.. My playthrough Kenny has my back so I don't see him as the guy that some of you see him as. He helped me in the pharmacy when Larry knocked me out, and he saved me in the barn so the problems you guys have with Kenny I'm not having in my playthrough. So I'm gonna have his back for as long as he has mine.

By that standard, you should've dropped him after the pickup zombie. Kenny's literally the only "man" (I use the term loosely) in the group that will never even attempt to help you in that situation, despite the fact that it's his wife (and incidentally you) at stake.

[Phantom Command]

By the time we reached the meat locker I was already tired of Kenny’s attitude, but the thing that swayed me to trying to save Larry was that firstly Clem was watching and I’m trying to show her there is still hope and that we don’t kill without hard facts.

Secondly although Larry hate’s Lee he defended Clem twice in episode one during the bitten duck situation and at the end chat with Lee, also in episode two we see Clem playing in-between Larry and Lilly at the start and sits next to Larry at the dinner table at the end of episode 2.

It may be nothing but if Clem is starting to prefer Lilly/Larry over the Kenny crew than I’ll tag along for the ride with her, after all I might live longer.

[Lin001]

Is there someone else who tried to save Larry because you actually liked the character?

Yeah, he was a jerk. And he punched me, and because of it I almost got ate by a zombie. Even so, at the start of the 2nd episode, Larry seems to be more cool with Lee. He's big, strong, and emotionally unstable. I wanted to know why, explore a little more his background. Not just this, but he tried to save my Lee with the axe. Well, maybe he didn't wanted to save me, just kill the zombie, but still...

And t'was fun see him while he flirted with Momma John. And what I actually gotta surprised, he didn't said anything about Lee being "urban", if you know what I mean.

Also, it's not like I don't like Kenny. I just wanted the game to give an option like " Dude, calm down. I am not blaming you, I understand why you did that ". Or something like " You two, stop being so f****ing childish!". Ha, this would be coo!

[Bcroft]

i sided with lilly, like everyone else i don't like larry at all. I understand how kenny wouldnt be thinking straight after what happened just before and having his family somewhere on the farm with cannibals, but he only had a heart attack, people have heart attacks often and alot of them are saved, Larry was a big dude and if anyone came by the camp hed be good to have to scare them away. I'm looking forward to see how this develops, Lilly's gonna want some revenge

[Rock114]

I had Kenny's back almost the whole way up to the meat locker, even sided with him on the Larry issue. I don't know why I thought it would be "cleaner" so to speak, because I forgot we had any real weapons. But holy crud, that look on both Lee's and Kenny's face after he did it... I think Kenny feels bad for that, as he looks to Lee for support after the leaving the dairy, but I can't side with someone who makes choices like that so quickly, even if he IS right, or DOES feel bad about it after.

[Sinncrow]

I sided with Kenny on the Larry thing because of one main reason: there was nothing I could have done to save the guy. My brother is an EMT, and he was watching me play The Walking Dead; as soon as Larry hit the ground, my brother said he was dead. I asked how he knew, and my brother said even if Larry wasn't dead from the heart attack, he would have died after a few minutes. CPR doesn't nothing when it comes to a heart attack, Larry didn't have his heart attack pills on him, and there wasn't anything in the room I could have used as a makeshift defibrillator. No matter what, unless Jesus descended down and brought Larry back to life, Larry was not going to make it.

That's the cold hard fact; Larry was not going to make it. It was better to put him out of his misery and prevent a zombie from being spawned, even if Lilly didn't like it.

[boxman]

Originally Posted by jaybreezy

And there's another difference. In my game, I sided with Kenny so he came to my rescue and Lilly left me hanging so I could say the same thing you just said, only about Lilly.

What did you expect when you brutally "murdered" the only family member she had left in her life?? That is a bit different than Kenny leaving you hanging for not murdering Larry for him.

[Sinncrow]

Originally Posted by boxman

What did you expect when you brutally "murdered" the only family member she had left in her life?? That is a bit different than Kenny leaving you hanging for not murdering Larry for him.

Technically, one could argue it was a mercy killing, considering in actual medical terms there was no way anyone in the meat locker could have brought Larry into a stable state, thus saving him. It sucks, but Larry was not going to survive (unless he had his heart attack pills, or Lee pulled out a defibrillator from his back pocket). Pumping his chest (Lilly's plan), might keep his heart pumping blood, but it is not going to save Larry from his heart attack; Lilly was only delaying the inevitable (as soon as she stopped pumping Larry's chest, his heart would have stopped, ending his life (also, pumping his chest is not going to help Larry regain consciousnesses)).

[HyperShot12]

I think that in the Meat Locker, Kenny had made the right decision to kill Larry, even though I had sided with Lilly. But the problem about Kenny is that if you disagree with his opinion he is all over your ass. I sided with Kenny in every argument, I gave his family the food back at the motor inn, and I saved Duck at Hershel's farm. So when I sided with Lilly in the meat locker, I thought Kenny would forgive me since I had always had his back. But in the preview for Episode 3: "Long Road Ahead" Kenny treated Lee like a piece of sh*t. I have advice for people just starting the game: Either side with Kenny on EVERYTHING, or don't side with him at all...

[ryannumber1gamer]

One think i'm wondering is that if it was Duck or Kat in place of Larry what would Kenny do. This goes the same to Larry and Lilly because while i think Lilly might be against doing what Kenny did to Larry to ether of them. After episode one i think Larry would be for using the salt lick on them. But i think we all know that Kenny would be like to Lee ''LEE HELP ME SAVE DUCK OR KAT!!''.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by HyperShot12

I think that in the Meat Locker, Kenny had made the right decision to kill Larry, even though I had sided with Lilly. But the problem about Kenny is that if you disagree with his opinion he is all over your ass. I sided with Kenny in every argument, I gave his family the food back at the motor inn, and I saved Duck at Hershel's farm. So when I sided with Lilly in the meat locker, I thought Kenny would forgive me since I had always had his back. But in the preview for Episode 3: "Long Road Ahead" Kenny treated Lee like a piece of sh*t. I have advice for people just starting the game: Either side with Kenny on EVERYTHING, or don't side with him at all...

I played that exact type of playthrough and I didn't get that impression from the preview at all. The most Kenny says is "Hell, like you listen to ME anymore...". It's clear there has been "fallout", just like he says on the walk back to the motor inn.

Also, Kenny appears to be remorseful on the way back, and turning to Lee for advice/consolation. The only remarks Lee can make are condescending, the least of which is telling Kenny that "he is not a bad man". No matter what, Lee condemns the act if you side with Lilly. There is no "I tried to help but you were right" type of conversation with Kenny. So I really don't blame him for not "forgiving" Lee.

Also, the most important piece, the previews are NOT set in stone. There were entire conversations in the episode two preview that were not present in episode two at all (like Doug or Carley giving you the candy bar). They're really there to give you a bit of a "taste" of what's coming up in the next episode.

[Waspinator]

I killed him. He had a heart attack, apparently had no medicine for it, and we had nothing resembling medical equipment. His chances of revival were basically zero anyway.

[FictionRaider007]

I was pretty annoyed at:
1. Kenny having a go at me when I tried to help Larry
2. When I was attacked by Danny and Kenny just sat there.
3. I was annoyed that I couldn't smooth things over with Kenny later.

But, thinking about it I think all these things make sense.

1. Kenny may or may not have taken a man's life and he desperately needs someone to support his decision. When his only real friend in this place looks down on him he becomes very upset and angry not just with lee but also himself.

2. Kenny only sticks his neck out for those he feels he can trust (e.g. Duck over Shawn and going back for Lee at the drug store). He feels he can rely on Lee and when he doesn't support his traumatizing decision then he starts to lose his faith in Lee.

3. I wanted to be be nice to Kenny but Lee didn't. In that situation I would have tried to make things up to Kenny. But, it's not me in that situation it's Lee. Sure you can influence Lee's choices, but all in all Lee's a seperate person and he wouldn't make a choice and then five minutes later suddenly try to apologise for it.

All in all I hope there's a way to make things up to Kenny - but I dobut it'll happen unless you save him and/or his family from certain death. And this is the Walking Dead - let's face it things can only get worse.