Commerce means civilization

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Has this been realized? On the preview of the next episode there is a short clip with Clem and Lee on a train. Clem is asking about adults being mad.

At first I didn’t think about it, but I been reading ‘Atlas Shrugged’ so maybe that’s why it dawned on me but…

In order for that train to run someone has to be driving it. As simple as it may look not just anybody can hop in a train and drive it. In order for the train to move fuel has to be used, and goods must be being transported between one location and other.

So in other words money is moving that train. The train looked empty except for Clem and Lee, so it’s not like it’s a FEMA train. So I wonder then…does this mean there are pockets of civilization in which that train is going back and forth from. A railway system is complicated and expensive to maintain. It takes more than just one train conductor to make it work. That means a lot of people are alive, thriving and most importantly making commerce.

[ruairi46]

That would make sence, but these 'people' will most likely have to die to keep it amusing, or you for some reason have to leave them..

[AceStarr]

Well you have to look at the time line im guessing its been 3 months from episode 1 to episode 2. So going into episode 3 it might be 1 month later. So in all you looking at 4 months total since the outbreak so im thinking trains our still runable if you have access to them.

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Originally Posted by AceStarr

Well you have to look at the time line im guessing its been 3 months from episode 1 to episode 2. So going into episode 3 it might be 1 month later. So in all you looking at 4 months total since the outbreak so im thinking trains our still runable if you have access to them.

Yep,I thought that too. But Since I don't know the type of train (engine) I can't guess at the fuel type.

But like I'm saying running a train is a specific skill set. We have to assume that who ever is running it survived throughout the outbreak.

Also, what about junctions and track switches. How is the train going back and forth? Are they using a train yard? All this requires alot of people working as one. And we know the only motivation for anything is money. So alot of money is being made to get all these things working. 4 months after a outbreak to have to train running seems like a miracle. Since one would expect that the people with the "know how" would either scatter or be zombies 4 months in.

[AceStarr]

Hmmm well its diff a cargo train i can tell that much. But you might be right maybe its a community set up around the train station i think one clips shows them near a train station building. But then if thats the case maybe they have some type of leadership and community around this train station. Maybe this is why the group splits up from viewing scenes for episode 3. Lillly probly goes on her own. Lee and his group (clem,carly or doug) stay and Kenny(his family, new guy) leave to reach the boat.

[Gman5852]

Originally Posted by The_Cheshire_Cat

At first I didn’t think about it, but I been reading ‘Atlas Shrugged’ so maybe that’s why it dawned on me but…

And this is the first sign of this post going no where. Terrible, terrible book.

In order for that train to run someone has to be driving it. As simple as it may look not just anybody can hop in a train and drive it. In order for the train to move fuel has to be used, and goods must be being transported between one location and other.

I'm sorry? What?

1. Its already stated that the group has plenty of fuel. That was the soul reason the St. Johns even started the trade. For fuel!

2. Trains normally are used for goods yes, but... its kind of a zombie apocolypse, and trains are a really good protection from them while at the same time moving people from place to place. No goods at all needed.

So in other words money is moving that train.

False. More like they had fuel on them, so they used the train. It isn't hard to believe the conductor of the train is a survivor just hiding out in the train.

The train looked empty except for Clem and Lee, so it’s not like it’s a FEMA train.

Zombie Apocalypses tend to lower the population I've heard.

So I wonder then…does this mean there are pockets of civilization in which that train is going back and forth from.

A possibility. Or the train is so big the group could have separate sections of it and are using the train to find a new home.

A railway system is complicated and expensive to maintain.

Its not expensive when the world has ended an everything goes.

It takes more than just one train conductor to make it work.

And it takes more than 3 people to maintain such a giant farm. AKA "Video game logic" applies here more than anything.

That means a lot of people are alive, thriving and most importantly making commerce.

A lot of people ARE alive as the comics show, but none of them are ever worried about currency or anything of the sort, they are worried about... staying alive and not being murdered!

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Originally Posted by AceStarr

hmmm well its diff a cargo train i can tell that much. But you might be right maybe its a community set up around the train station i think one clips shows them near a train station building. But then if thats the case maybe they have some type of leadership and community around this train station. Maybe this is why the group splits up from viewing scenes for episode 3. Lillly probly goes on her own. lee and his group (clem,carly or doug) stay and Kenny(his family, new guy) leave to reach the boat.

sounds about right.

But I still wanna stress that this thing has to be bigger than just one community, because other wise who are they trading with? There has to be another community (at least one other one) on the other end of the line somewhere.

[AceStarr]

It would be interesting if they do have two communitys tradeing via train.

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Originally Posted by Gman5852

And this is the first sign of this post going no where.

Sir, do you realize that you are a fool? That's all I'm going to say about your intelligence less the german comes round.

I'm not here to defend Ayn Rand, but let me ask. Have you even read the (entire) book? How can you be critical of something you have not seen (or read) for yourself?

Anyway, I brought up the book only to say it got me thinking about trains.

Lets go through your rebuttal:

First of all my naive friend trains don't run on the same fuel that cars do. Modern trains run on either diesel fuel or electricity. It is assumed that the group has lots of fuel to run a car, that's why they could run the generator. (assuming the generator was gas as it was small and crummy so that is likely) So in either case, especially electric, some sort of advanced pocket of civilization still thrives.

Second, you mention trains being used for protection. However, who has the money (diesel fuel, electricity, maintenance, parts) to run the train up and down the track. For four months? And to that end one cannot just drive a car around and around and expect it not to break down need fuel or a tire here or there, so why can a train just be run the same way at no cost.

It is hard to believe that one man is running the train. He cant switch tracks he can't clear debris that their might be. How does he know where he is going? How does he know the track is in tact? So can he only go forward and not backward. Where does he get fuel, and is he making repairs all by himself. Assuming the train is running on diesel he has to be getting it from somewhere. If you had read the book you would know that running a train is complex.

I mention FEMA train to say that Clem and Lee are not being forced or deported. I mention it is empty to say they have more than likely hopped a train in motion. If it was full it might be government train hence FEMA

You allow that there are pockets, you say that maybe they have the train sectioned off, looking for a new home. Okay, so you agree that there has to be at least one pocket of civilization, but again all the things it takes to run a train system it is less likely to be a group of travels and more likely to be a group of people trying to get civilization back on its feet. My friend, do you not know that commerce is how civilizations start?

You claim its not expensive, but what about the fuel and parts. Where will that be gotten? It may not be paid for in dollars but it has to at least be bartered, or taken. It is expensive in time and labour as well.

A farm is different from a train, as it is stationary and with the fence it was a whole lot easier. The farm was more or less self sufficient with the wood, and the animal and a generator. The supplies needed to run a house and the supplies needed to run a train are very different naive one.

And finally, yes in the comics lots of people are alive, and no they don't speak of money because they have not gotten that far in society. things are not that stable. But if a group is big enough and stable enough to run a train system I am sure they have worried about money. Any group would want to return back to "normal" and commerce is the first sign of normal.

What did George Bush say after 9/11. "Go out and stimulate the economy."

Y u know nothing?

[Milosuperspesh]

the train most likely is a steam locomotive which is powered by coal/wood burning to heat water in a boiler, i'd say the wood supply is pretty good.. heck even corpses would probably work..if you can get em in..

money is no longer relevant it is a barter system....

[AceStarr]

whoa lol

[AceStarr]

Originally Posted by Milosuperspesh

the train most likely is a steam locomotive which is powered by coal/wood burning to heat water in a boiler, i'd say the wood supply is pretty good.. heck even corpses would probably work..if you can get em in..

money is no longer relevant it is a barter system....

Thats what im thinking barter system if there is two communitys involved thats what the train is most likely used for.

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Originally Posted by Milosuperspesh

the train most likely is a steam locomotive which is powered by coal/wood burning to heat water in a boiler, i'd say the wood supply is pretty good.. heck even corpses would probably work..if you can get em in..

money is no longer relevant it is a barter system....

You know...that crossed my mind. But those things are so old. I mean this is modern day right? It would be something else to find a steam engine now a days. I just can't see it. Especially in America. That's like finding a horse and buggy. LOL.

Okay, maybe not that bad. But steam engine would explain a lot. And it would allow for a smaller group of people to run it.

and yeah I agree I think it would have to be something like a barter system. Or maybe they have made their own version of currency.

[godzilla999666]

Most train yards where a train would be stored would also have fuel for the train stored there. As for clearing the tracks, the train could push the cars on the tracks out of the way. And in the four months it might have been, i wouldn't thinka train would break down and need repaired. My car doesn't break down every four months, otherwise i would get a better car. Most ofvthe rairoad crossing, switches and stuff run off electricity and have battery back up. In rural settungs, they run only battery backup. If the switches/ crossings havn't been used a lot, there would still be battery juice to throw a switch or two. Iwoukd think with so.e expermentation, most people could get a train to move, just like learning to move a crane or something odd like that

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Originally Posted by godzilla999666

Most train yards where a train would be stored would also have fuel for the train stored there. As for clearing the tracks, the train could push the cars on the tracks out of the way. And in the four months it might have been, i wouldn't thinka train would break down and need repaired. My car doesn't break down every four months, otherwise i would get a better car. Most ofvthe rairoad crossing, switches and stuff run off electricity and have battery back up. In rural settungs, they run only battery backup. If the switches/ crossings havn't been used a lot, there would still be battery juice to throw a switch or two. Iwoukd think with so.e expermentation, most people could get a train to move, just like learning to move a crane or something odd like that

Good points. I like that.

Lets see what we can piece together. Maybe solve the mystery of the train.

The train yard and fuel is logical, so we can say someone came upon a train yard, has all the supplies needed to at least run a train. The train could push cars out the way. The conductor would have to go at a slow speed through as not to ram into anything that would potentially knock the train off track. The only thing with that is, what about other trains on the track?

True, so a train does not break down every 4 months. But the train has been active for longer, and chances are with some heavy duty pushing and the constant stop and go to clear the tracks I think it would need some looking after.

I did not know about the battery back up for the train system. That's logical, and since we don't know how long the battery lasts we can say 4 months in is okay for it to still work.

Don't know that I agree that most folks could get a train going, but I see your point.

So now...the big question. Where are they going?

But I guess if we knew that, it wouldn't be fun trying to figure it out. Thanks a lot for those points.

[godzilla999666]

My guess is that they are going anywhere they can. Most roads and interstate are clogged with stopped cars. In theory the railroad tracks would be less likely to be clogged. If they come across othe trains, they could disengage the brakes and push it ahead of them. I live in rural country and seen a modern train, 1 engine pulling about 75 full grains cars. So if they only take a couple of cars with them, in thoery they fould push more cars down tne track when they come across them. Also most cars are on side tracks if not actually being pulled at that moment. The only traffic theywould be worried about is a train that was running, while people were being sick and dying. Most of the small tracks around here only have a train a day at the most, meaning nit a lot of traffic. If the train was in a bigger town, then they would have lots more issues with other stopped trains. I figure rural geogia is like rural kansas when it comes to train traffic. Also switches all still havemanual handles, that they could stop the train before switch, get out and throw switch, abd get back on and start train going again.

[godzilla999666]

The battery backup is so that if a train in moving during a power outage, people don't run into it, and if the train is moving, it takes a lot to knock it off track. My younger brother years ago ran into the back end of a train. His chevy S-10 was doing about 45 whne he hit the train. The train only stopped to see if he was alright, it didn't hurt the train other than cosmetically.

[Vainamoinen]

godzilla, You can EDIT your posts so you don't have to double post. Thanks.

I haven't edited Chesire's post up there because I'm too lazy. I'd be thankful if Gman ignored the insults though. Rest assured, that cat and I will have a one on one talk about netiquette if need be. American style, as he seems to be so perpetually baffled that I'm German.

[Gman5852]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

I'd be thankful if Gman ignored the insults though.

I stopped reading after "fool" so you don't need to worry about that.

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Originally Posted by Gman5852

I stopped reading after "fool" so you don't need to worry about that.

The German said that I have to play nice with all the people in his community, even the ones that um...are not very swift in thought and reasoning.

I'm sorry for naming your cognitive capabilities Gman. It's really not place to insult you, even if you don't know what you are talking about.

I am sorry Gman5852.