Episode 3 ruined everything

[Xebioz]

Originally Posted by HelloCthulhu

The coices you make do change the story. Not in DRASTIC ways, but they do. If that is not enough for you, go ask ttg for a copy of their game engine and build your own game with it.

I would, but I don't feel like creating a game where I know what will happen for me to play said game and know everything about it. Do you guys not understand that "Go make your own game" thing really fails when it comes to adventure games?

Back on track now...

[HelloCthulhu]

Originally Posted by Xebioz

I would, but I don't feel like creating a game where I know what will happen for me to play said game and know everything about it. Do you guys not understand that "Go make your own game" thing really fails when it comes to adventure games?

Back on track now...

Do you understand where the argument "I would but it would ruin it for me" falls flat when talking about a game company that did just that? You complain about a game that is limited by the technology available and the time they have to program it.

On a separate note, do you realize the butterfly effect that would have if they did give you one? They would have to in effect, from there on out, build two different games. One for one path, one for another. that would LITERALLY double the release schedule delays. And that is just 1 decision.

[Xebioz]

Originally Posted by HelloCthulhu

Do you understand where the argument "I would but it would ruin it for me" falls flat when talking about a game company that did just that? You complain about a game that is limited by the technology available and the time they have to program it.

On a separate note, do you realize the butterfly effect that would have if they did give you one? They would have to in effect, from there on out, build two different games. One for one path, one for another. that would LITERALLY double the release schedule delays. And that is just 1 decision.

I know I'm bringing up a game known for it's decisions and an old game that you probably haven't played, but you do know that a game like for instance Blade Runner had a lot of decisions and meaningful choices and that was released ages ago? I don't really get the limited by technology thing. And don't start with the development time. I'd rather have the promised product in a year than 80% in two months. But that's just my cup of tea.

[cormoran]

Originally Posted by Xebioz

I know I'm bringing up a game known for it's decisions and an old game that you probably haven't played, but you do know that a game like for instance Blade Runner had a lot of decisions and meaningful choices and that was released ages ago? I don't really get the limited by technology thing. And don't start with the development time. I'd rather have the promised product in a year than 80% in two months. But that's just my cup of tea.

Blade runner got mentioned in the first page, those choices weren't as meaningful as you're making out.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

Choices not mattering is a valid complaint. I liked episode 3, really, but not only did any of your choices not matter throughout the episode, your previous decisions also get sidelined.

The story was good, but I think criticism is more helpful than just being a defensive fanboy.

[HelloCthulhu]

Originally Posted by Xebioz

I know I'm bringing up a game known for it's decisions and an old game that you probably haven't played, but you do know that a game like for instance Blade Runner had a lot of decisions and meaningful choices and that was released ages ago? I don't really get the limited by technology thing. And don't start with the development time. I'd rather have the promised product in a year than 80% in two months. But that's just my cup of tea.

Would you be willing to wait a year for 1 episode? I don't think so.

[HelloCthulhu]

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

Choices not mattering is a valid complaint. I liked episode 3, really, but not only did any of your choices not matter throughout the episode, your previous decisions also get sidelined.

The story was good, but I think criticism is more helpful than just being a defensive fanboy.

It is a valid point, but not as huge a point as people are making it out to be. I personally feel the game is following the formula that Kirkman used in the majority of his comics. If you don't know what I mean, go read the past 100 issues. It will become apparent.

[Xebioz]

Originally Posted by cormoran

Blade runner got mentioned in the first page, those choices weren't as meaningful as you're making out.

Well then, maybe I just remember a game from 97' for having good graphics? That story is different every time you play it and you don't know how stuff is going to go down even if you have played it before. If they could do that back then they should be able to do some kind of branching story now no? And that was FMV in addition which is a horrible tool to work with when trying to lower costs.

But anyway. What I am saying is not that TWD is a bad game or that Episode 3 is bad. I just feel that a good product should be criticized when it shows flaws and that's what I'm doing. Hailing the game as the savior of gaming really isn't going to turn out a better Episode 4, so I'm trying to help in my way.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

Originally Posted by HelloCthulhu

It is a valid point, but not as huge a point as people are making it out to be. I personally feel the game is following the formula that Kirkman used in the majority of his comics. If you don't know what I mean, go read the past 100 issues. It will become apparent.

The comics don't give you any promise of choice so it's not a question of "what if..."

[Xebioz]

Originally Posted by HelloCthulhu

It is a valid point, but not as huge a point as people are making it out to be. I personally feel the game is following the formula that Kirkman used in the majority of his comics. If you don't know what I mean, go read the past 100 issues. It will become apparent.

Yes and that's fine, I get it (I've read a bit of it a while back). But the fact is that this game is supposed to give you a role and then let you work with it (inside of plausible boundaries of course). The fact is though that for a game that claims choices and decisions as it's most important feature, it doesn't seem to focus on that. I love the story, don't get me wrong, but I don't feel like having a lot of lee'way (). I don't want you to be able to save everyone or to be able to kill random people in the group, or do other wierd stuff. What I'm asking for is a branching story to a logical degree.

Tell me three significant changes in the end of episode 3 because of your choices. In the end of episode 2 I could easily have answered that question, but now it's getting harder for me.

[HelloCthulhu]

Originally Posted by Xebioz

Well then, maybe I just remember a game from 97' for having good graphics? That story is different every time you play it and you don't know how stuff is going to go down even if you have played it before. If they could do that back then they should be able to do some kind of branching story now no? And that was FMV in addition which is a horrible tool to work with when trying to lower costs.

But anyway. What I am saying is not that TWD is a bad game or that Episode 3 is bad. I just feel that a good product should be criticized when it shows flaws and that's what I'm doing. Hailing the game as the savior of gaming really isn't going to turn out a better Episode 4, so I'm trying to help in my way.

Except that episodic games don't really lend themselves to that kind of story. Especially one with a coalescent story. I get what you are saying, but this is TTG. TTG makes episodic games; they don't make games that are full games all at once. Jurassic park was the exception and it failed horribly. HORRIBLY.

If another gaming company was making the game, I would say yes, you are right...give them all the time in the world to get that game out there...but I just don't see Telltale making an episodic game that branches. It would be programming hell.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

Originally Posted by Xebioz

Well then, maybe I just remember a game from 97' for having good graphics? That story is different every time you play it and you don't know how stuff is going to go down even if you have played it before. If they could do that back then they should be able to do some kind of branching story now no? And that was FMV in addition which is a horrible tool to work with when trying to lower costs.

But anyway. What I am saying is not that TWD is a bad game or that Episode 3 is bad. I just feel that a good product should be criticized when it shows flaws and that's what I'm doing. Hailing the game as the savior of gaming really isn't going to turn out a better Episode 4, so I'm trying to help in my way.

I agree. I think episode 3 had better storytelling than either of the two episodes before it, but...

[HelloCthulhu]

Originally Posted by Xebioz

Yes and that's fine, I get it (I've read a bit of it a while back). But the fact is that this game is supposed to give you a role and then let you work with it (inside of plausible boundaries of course). The fact is though that for a game that claims choices and decisions as it's most important feature, it doesn't seem to focus on that. I love the story, don't get me wrong, but I don't feel like having a lot of lee'way (). I don't want you to be able to save everyone or to be able to kill random people in the group, or do other wierd stuff. What I'm asking for is a branching story to a logical degree.

Tell me three significant changes in the end of episode 3 because of your choices. In the end of episode 2 I could easily have answered that question, but now it's getting harder for me.

I would disagree that choices was ever billed as the most important feature in the game. It simply one of the features that makes it different than most games. Even most adventure games.

[TeleporterFIN]

Agree with the OP, episode 3 ruined everything for me. Quite ironically, right after Carley died I quit and next time I tried to play my save games were corrupted, so I'd have to do the whole game again.
Guess do I want to?

[TeleporterFIN]

---

[HelloCthulhu]

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

The comics don't give you any promise of choice so it's not a question of "what if..."

Well that all depends on how you are looking at the game. It's not meant to be a game that has completely different outcomes to the episode depending on your choices. It's meant to be an adventure game with the ability to affect the story with your choices. Now does that mean that the story will be completely different down to the outcome? No, I don't think they ever promised that.

Originally Posted by TeleporterFIN

Agree with the OP, episode 3 ruined everything for me. Quite ironically, right after Carley died I quit and next time I tried to play my save games were corrupted, so I'd have to do the whole game again.
Guess do I want to?

then really, they did their job by evoking feelings of betrayal from you. You might not like it, but that is something authors have done many times. Look at George R.R. Martin: He kills characters off all the time independent of whether they are popular or not.

[Xebioz]

Originally Posted by HelloCthulhu

It is a valid point, but not as huge a point as people are making it out to be. I personally feel the game is following the formula that Kirkman used in the majority of his comics. If you don't know what I mean, go read the past 100 issues. It will become apparent.

Oh and for the record let me show you what I mean when I'm talking about meaningful choices. For instance:

You know the gun "charlotte"? Lee has it with him on the RV and if you keep Lilly with you after the accident on the road then she runs of with it right? Well if you threw her out on the road then he would still have the gun with him (which he for some reason ditches on the RV). A small difference like that can change so much when it comes to choices (at least for me). And this doesn't mean that you somehow knew that this was going to happen beforehand so you still don't have control really, but IT MAKES SENSE. And that's what I mean when I mean choices matter. The fact that something is different, not necessarily people alive or dead (clementine's hoodie is a good example). It's not as hard as people are claiming it to be.

[WadeTheButcher]

When someone (TT) states that the choices/decisions you make matter, you assume that they will have a larger impact on the story. TT stating that your choices matter is like stating that the game is a monthly episodic. Either way, episode 3 sucked and I can't believe it took as long as it did to create. Aside of what Lilly did, there was nothing shocking. The game/story is very predictable and agree with the OP, I could care less about the next episode. It's not about the characters, it's the entire game.

*snip*

[HelloCthulhu]

First of all, Wade, Just because someone has a different opinion from you, it does not give you the right to berate and belittle them. You lost the debate as soon as you did.

Second, I personally disagree with almost 95% of your entire post. I, however, will not stoop to calling you names for it.

[Vainamoinen]

The berating is gone, please carry on as if nothing had happened. Thank you.