Abundance of False choices in conversations

[AceStarr]

Im thinking evryone wants the game to be like Heavy rain

But im thinking Heavy rain budget was bigger and they could make different storylines for each Character with your actions as far as how you talk to people and the outcome of it.

This game might be limited as what can be done and i respect that if its the case

But i would love to see different outcomes fit my actions if possible. I dont wanna be an asshoe to Ben for example and he save me from zombies. Id rather see him leave me or if he do save me maybe he hesitates because hey Lee has been an asshoe to me.

[Googolplexbyte]

Originally Posted by AceStarr

Im thinking evryone wants the game to be like Heavy rain

But im thinking Heavy rain budget was bigger and they could make different storylines for each Character with your actions as far as how you talk to people and the outcome of it.

This game might be limited as what can be done and i respect that if its the case

But i would love to see different outcomes fit my actions if possible. I dont wanna be an asshoe to Ben for example and he save me from zombies. Id rather see him leave me or if he do save me maybe he hesitates because hey Lee has been an asshoe to me.

I'm personally not asking every choice be big divergence point, I'm okay with the overall linearity (despite advertised), I'm mainly just squabbling over the occasion choices where the choice doesn't even make a difference in the shortest of term, they seem like pointless coddling to me.

[bazenji]

Heavy Rain doesn't differ that much. You always end up in the same location with the same button sequences. Only one choice is different really.

Although that illusion of choice is awesome.

Also, Dragon Age: Origins? Really? DA:O doesn't change at all when you play through it except for the background story.

In one case you can kill someone who would otherwise just run away forever. In another case you can get revenge or eventually that guy can get challenged to a duel or he eventually gets locked up and then executed. Same result.

The choice between Alistair and the Queen is pretty much the choice between Doug and Carley. Except you have to live with the consequences of Doug and Carley's lives being saved for longer in TWD.

[Ja1862]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

Um, s/he said "At the beginning of ep. 3 when you see the girl you can immediately choose to ignore the girl, but it don't matter kenny will tell you that you have to consider doing precisely that."

What am I missing?

That Lee then says "We can't do that!" even though previously the players original choice was to ignore her, unless Lee suffers from schizophrenia it makes no sense for him to contradict himself like that... see?

[k0pernikus]

Originally Posted by AceStarr

Im thinking evryone wants the game to be like Heavy rain

Well, it kind of was advertised as one No in name exactly, but in the sense that choice was supposed to matter.

[TMLC]

I think k0pernikus said it all. That’s exactly the feeling I have.

I will be very disappointed if the game end being like the Jurassic Park were the only true difference for the story’s development is you dying or not.

I understand that is really difficult to produce a big number of plots (and must also say that the game story is very good and the characters are, in general, very good too), but that’s what had been said this game was about. There must be different lines to go.

[Eric Northman]

Originally Posted by Xarne

The best BioWare RPG ever made.

Yeah, it's a shame that the second one wasn't worth finishing.

[WowMutt]

Originally Posted by k0pernikus

I realized this too. I really want to remind Telltale of their claim: That this game is advertised as being shaped at how I play it.

So why is it that this episode gets rid of the only greater choice-induced story difference already?

In episode 1, we could either save Carley or Doug. And suddenly, both die at the very beginning of episode 3 because the plot demands for Lilly to lose it. Without any control by the player.

OK, I get it. Bad stuff does happen to good people beyond their control all the time. Yet shouldn't the death of Carley/Doug only be one of multiple outcomes depending on how you talked to Lilly and the group before? At least we could have got a non-standard game-over when you took the blame for stealing the supplies.

I want for this game to reflect my choices more. To really take them into account. Not just by stating that somebody will remember what I said. Which then often only results in a slightly different throw-away line that does not really change anything.

I very much do want very different outcomes due to my choices.

Instead, Telltale just hit the reset button, and nullified all my choices.

It does not matter what I have chosen in the past, the remaining group is quite the same independent from my choices. This is not what I have signed up for :-(

I do not want to decide if I or Kenny shoot Duck as long as the end result is the same. Instead, depending from my choices, it should be determined if Duck gets bitten in the first place!

I get there are limits to branching off the game paths, as there is a huge development overhead for each branch, that grows exponentially with each further choice. And maybe Telltale does not want to make content that only 10% of their players will see. But that is exactly what I want! An almost individualized experience. I want to be able to talk with my friends about my play-through and want to have my mind blown about the differences, and not realize how rail-roaded the game is in the end.

I would be willing to pay for such a game, double, tripple even. Even if it meant shorter play time for one play through. (Yet replayability would be high.) I cannot tell how much I want a game in which decisions really affect the story line. For me, it's something this medium could really excel at, but was only seldom tried. (The classic RPGs come to mind. The closest recent endeavor was The Witcher series, even with all those games' flaws. In the Witcher 2, the whole second chapter was completely different depending on one big choice. Mass Effect also had potential to greatness, but they blew it with the ending in the last one.)

Right now, I expect the rail-roading of the storyline in TWD to continue. Only giving us choices that at best will determine how something but not what happens. And if we are lucky we will have a few multiple endings. (Please let there be multiple endings.)

Yet I do not believe anymore that this game is shaped by how I play it. It simply is another game that gives the illusion of choice only to move forward in only one direction.

Perfect comment!!

We realize the 'story' is already written and our choices only matter slightly at which path we take, but the destination remains the same and none of our choices matter in that!
And I agree that if TellTale were do make the game reflect our individual choices more, then they would have to make this game much bigger, to include many more senerios.

Example: in EP1 we're given the option to leave Clems house at day or night.
Regardless what we choose, we still end up at the farm and meet Kenny etc.
I would prefer a situation where if we choose to go at night, we never goto Hershal's farm, never meet Kenny and family.. We could possibly find a car and drive to Macon ourselves, maybe never meet Lilly and Larry and the rest.. Save Lee's family and have them as our group.

Again, I realize something like that would require a whole new set of programming and development, but that's more to the point what we expected from TellTale when they advertise the game is tailored to our choices!

[Sir Fruitcakes]

Originally Posted by Ezrawa

The only game that did it correct was Dragon Age:Origins

I agree, but TWD has a charm of its own.

Originally Posted by Eric Northman

Yeah, it's a shame that the second one wasn't worth finishing.

I finished it, and I have to say it was one of the worst experiences in my life but atleast that paladin woman was a decent enough character to me that I Could finish it. PS: the combat was actiony, and it made me angry.

[Saracenar]

Originally Posted by k0pernikus

I do not want to decide if I or Kenny shoot Duck as long as the end result is the same. Instead, depending from my choices, it should be determined if Duck gets bitten in the first place!

So you're saying you think the game should let you pick who lives and dies at any point in the story? Do you know how ridiculously difficult that would be to program? And how lame it would make the story?

Think about it; if you can choose whether someone lives or dies, are you going to let them die? Sure, you might let bad guys die, but you'll never let people like Doug or Carley or Duck or Katjaa or Mark die. It's just plain silly to think that you should be able to do that.

In the zombie apocalypse, people DIE. A LOT.

Originally Posted by WowMutt

Example: in EP1 we're given the option to leave Clems house at day or night.
Regardless what we choose, we still end up at the farm and meet Kenny etc.
I would prefer a situation where if we choose to go at night, we never goto Hershal's farm, never meet Kenny and family.. We could possibly find a car and drive to Macon ourselves, maybe never meet Lilly and Larry and the rest.. Save Lee's family and have them as our group.

Again, I realize something like that would require a whole new set of programming and development, but that's more to the point what we expected from TellTale when they advertise the game is tailored to our choices!

You paid $5 per episode. Having just one choice like this would essentially double the amount of effort and time that Telltale would have to put into it. And that's just for one such branching choice. You said you realise what it would involve, but do you really?

If your example were to be implemented, Telltale would have to make to different versions of episode 2. Then, if there is another diverging choice in episode 2, they have to make 4 versions of episode three. Do you see where this is going?

Telltale isn't a big company, and even big companies don't do this kind of thing (except for the Witcher 2 apparently?). But those games cost, depending on where you are, between $60 and $100.

It's just not feasible. Be happy with what has been delivered; a great story, with great characters (some of whom WILL die, no matter what you do), in a great setting, with a degree of choice. And remember what you're paying for this.

[Xarne]

Originally Posted by Eric Northman

Yeah, it's a shame that the second one wasn't worth finishing.

Talking about DragonMassAgeEffect 2 makes me sad...
but I really came in here to tell you all that in Heavy Rain you could do the most messed up stuff and the story still continues:
I accidentally drove my car off a pier with some poor lady who was going to help me out on a case in the passenger seat. That car sunk like a rock and she never came up Then I murdered my friend (accidentally), got arrested and my son died, but I think I mentioned all this before. I dont do well with controllers

[Master of Aeons]

The interesting thing is if everyone dies and the girl drowns in the car, it's the best ending.

[Ja1862]

Originally Posted by bazenji

Heavy Rain doesn't differ that much. You always end up in the same location with the same button sequences. Only one choice is different really.

Although that illusion of choice is awesome.

Also, Dragon Age: Origins? Really? DA:O doesn't change at all when you play through it except for the background story.

In one case you can kill someone who would otherwise just run away forever. In another case you can get revenge or eventually that guy can get challenged to a duel or he eventually gets locked up and then executed. Same result.

The choice between Alistair and the Queen is pretty much the choice between Doug and Carley. Except you have to live with the consequences of Doug and Carley's lives being saved for longer in TWD.

Heavy Rain is slightly different as if you miss a button with the quick time events you don't just die, different animations are implemented.

Characters can also die at different times - be that missing out on some locations etc.

It does allow some choice be it not much, The Walking Dead seems to offer 0 choice just quotes during the game "so and so will remember that" etc pretending that choice matters.

[Master of Aeons]

Originally Posted by Ja1862

Heavy Rain is slightly different as if you miss a button with the quick time events you don't just die, different animations are implemented.

Characters can also die at different times - be that missing out on some locations etc.

It does allow some choice be it not much, The Walking Dead seems to offer 0 choice just quotes during the game "so and so will remember that" etc pretending that choice matters.

Heavy Rain is just as linear. People can only die in Heavy Rain at the very end. The same events happen no matter what. That's the standard. In Heavy Rain, Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy, and Jurassic Park, none of your choices do more than cosmetic changes until the very end.

It's the same thing, the only difference is that Heavy Rain has already ended and people can see the few offshoots: the girl can drown in the car and the characters can die [right] before the finale. Aside from that, the only differences come at the ending cinematic.

[Xarne]

Originally Posted by Master of Aeons

The interesting thing is if everyone dies and the girl drowns in the car, it's the best ending.

I wouldnt even know, all of that happened in the same playthrough. I just came to the realization that I suk at HeavyRain and gave it back to gamefly.
It was awesome graphics and nice setting but the pace was just too slow

[Master of Aeons]

Originally Posted by Xarne

I wouldnt even know, all of that happened in the same playthrough. I just came to the realization that I suk at HeavyRain and gave it back to gamefly.
It was awesome graphics and nice setting but the pace was just too slow

Did you play Indigo Prophecy? It's less slow but way more bizarre. Check for a Lets Play.

[Xarne]

Originally Posted by Master of Aeons

Did you play Indigo Prophecy? It's less slow but way more bizarre. Check for a Lets Play.

That game was freakin awesome! That felt like an interactive movie to me
And the music was really good (especially when you trained on the punching bag), I lost count how many times I replayed it

[Master of Aeons]

Fun, good soundtrack, interactive movie, yes. Good third act? No.

[Xarne]

ya it got really weird at the end right? It was the contemporary; street crime/drama feel...then all of a sudden it turned into some ancient Mayan culture repeating some 2000 yr old cycle; or something...but I did like the multiple endings
I had to check the endings again, yes, there was some crazy fractal-looking gold entity, that was the ending I always chose

[Juicius Maximus]

The thing I loved most about Indigo Prophecy (haven't played heavy rain) was that you switch between characters with opposing goals. In the first scene, you're a guy who just unwittingly committed a murder. In the second, you're the cops hunting him. That really sold it for me as an interactive movie, because you know, that's how most real movies have been telling stories since The Great Train Robbery. And yet, most games, even the "cinematic" ones, are written like first person novels. This was actually one of the few things I liked about Jurassic Park too, and kind of miss in TWD.