The "Ben choice" is bs

[fenom]

I didn't drop Ben... cause I didn't even tried to shoot the zombie.

The problem is that in reality I wouldn't have let him die and most probably no other player as well.

I let him die because it was the 1st chance the game gave me to deal with him in any way! Which is stupid by the way. This choice doesn't really say anything about the player and if anything is a failure of the game. We're supposed to be immersed to the game yet at that moment I was only thinking "I'm playing a game".


They make Ben so dumb and then FORCE him on you, without any chance to do something about it.
And not just dumb but I think that as a character he is poorly written, making him unrealistic and inconsistent. from the top of my head:

- Any person that wouldn't be any help with the zombies and feels kind of worthless or even guilty like Ben, would try his very best to help out in every non zombie situation. I mean fine you're that scared of zombies that you can't overcome it even for a child in danger, but you can't even babysit one in a SECURED area as the house with other people present no less? Instead he says to Lee something like get off my back? And attempts to drink with drunk Kenny to top it off?

- He wants to help out because he knows he's been pretty much worthless but if Lee tells him that well Ben you haven't been exactly helpful he gets pissed off.

- He's so afraid that he doesn't try to save Clem but is completely ok with falling, breaking 10 bones and be eaten ALIVE.

This kind of behavior is illogical to me and unrealistic. They could have made Ben even that stupid but at least sympathetic in some ways. Like if he was the guy that always keep an eye on Clem. Or give him some kind of ability like Doug for example who while no fighter material was helpful with anything electronics related. So then even if the game gave you a choice to cut him lose it wouldn't be a no brainer. They could even make it so that a member of the group dies if you chose to cut him lose because his ability would have helped, and make you feel guilty.


Instead they just make this beyond stupid Ben just being there with all the flaws at least I personally see, and force him time and time again to present you with this bs choice to force you to let him die. Well bravo then, clap clap.

I'm wondering... with Ben being as they made him, if there was a choice to cut him lose at some point, how many players that saved him would have voted for him to leave? Cause I'm betting a lot.

[That1Guy]

I won't be leaving him behind anytime soon.

[Gemini88]

Seriously you are retarded. First fix your grammar. Second Ben isn't useless Telltale shows us the differences between a adult and a teenager in a ZA situation. He tries to help but he cannot because he doesn't know how and I probably would do the same if some people say to me that they have hostaged my best friend and to get him back I would need to give them something. He wants you to let go of him because he knows what he has done and doesn't want more people to die because of him so he wants to die not because he is afraid but because he cares about the team and he thinks he is just a asset.

[FarmerJoe]

-Ben does try his best to help the group and even asks Lee if he can go with him and Kenny to help them.He's a teenager, I would think that helping the men and sharing a drink with Kenny would be a lot more appealing than babysitting a little girl. He mentions that he likes Kenny and feels guilty for what happened to his family.

-A lot of people don't take criticism,judgement and the lack of confidence that well.

-After everything that's happened the kid's a guilt ridden mess in the bell tower and had convinced himself that he deserved to die for the deaths that had happened.He probably hoped that the fall would give him a quick death, I doubt he wanted his last moments to be him having his bones broken and being eaten alive. He wanted to be punished and thought that that at least his death would benefit the people he cared for.

I don't find Ben unrealistic,he's a immature 16-17 teenager who recently lost his parents and all his friends.Maybe he had parents who did everything for him and he has no idea how to judge situations or make the best choices.

[Rock114]

I think Ben is a perfectly realistic and well written character.

- Ben was a coward. He couldn't keep Clem safe because he's too afraid of what might happen to him, which caused him to run away. We see this with Lilly's interrogation at the RV too. He doesn't speak up because he's too scared of the consequences. He probably didn't think about the stalker being out there looking for Clem either, and since he likely doesn't have much experience with caring for children. He thought that kids liked to play outside, so he let her play outside. He just wasn't smart enough to realize that she might need to be supervised.

- Just because someone acknowledges that they're useless doesn't mean they like hearing it from others. It's one thing to say it to yourself, but other people saying it right to your face really hurts.

-He isn't exaclty BEGGING for death because he's not afraid anymore. He's still TERRIFIED of death, but he realizes that time spent pulling him up is more time the group spends in Crawford, surrounded by walkers, in danger, because of HIS actions. He didn't want to be the cause of anymore death, so he faced his fear and told Lee to get everyone else out because he was sick and tired of getting people killed.

Ben finally grew up during the Crawford raid (at the end). He saw his teacher and his friend die just one week before, and then saw Carley/Doug, Kat, Duck, and Brie die because of his actions. After being plauged by guilt since the bandit raid in Episode 3, he finally puts the group ahead of himself. In the bell tower, he "turned over a new leaf", if you will.

[Viser]

Originally Posted by Rock114

I think Ben is a perfectly realistic and well written character.

- Ben was a coward. He couldn't keep Clem safe because he's too afraid of what might happen to him, which caused him to run away. We see this with Lilly's interrogation at the RV too. He doesn't speak up because he's too scared of the consequences. He probably didn't think about the stalker being out there looking for Clem either, and since he likely doesn't have much experience with caring for children. He thought that kids liked to play outside, so he let her play outside. He just wasn't smart enough to realize that she might need to be supervised.

- Just because someone acknowledges that they're useless doesn't mean they like hearing it from others. It's one thing to say it to yourself, but other people saying it right to your face really hurts.

-He isn't exaclty BEGGING for death because he's not afraid anymore. He's still TERRIFIED of death, but he realizes that time spent pulling him up is more time the group spends in Crawford, surrounded by walkers, in danger, because of HIS actions. He didn't want to be the cause of anymore death, so he faced his fear and told Lee to get everyone else out because he was sick and tired of getting people killed.

Ben finally grew up during the Crawford raid (at the end). He saw his teacher and his friend die just one week before, and then saw Carley/Doug, Kat, Duck, and Brie die because of his actions. After being plauged by guilt since the bandit raid in Episode 3, he finally puts the group ahead of himself. In the bell tower, he "turned over a new leaf", if you will.

Bravo
This.

[shedim]

Originally Posted by Rock114

I think Ben is a perfectly realistic and well written character.

- Ben was a coward. He couldn't keep Clem safe because he's too afraid of what might happen to him, which caused him to run away. We see this with Lilly's interrogation at the RV too. He doesn't speak up because he's too scared of the consequences. He probably didn't think about the stalker being out there looking for Clem either, and since he likely doesn't have much experience with caring for children. He thought that kids liked to play outside, so he let her play outside. He just wasn't smart enough to realize that she might need to be supervised.

- Just because someone acknowledges that they're useless doesn't mean they like hearing it from others. It's one thing to say it to yourself, but other people saying it right to your face really hurts.

-He isn't exaclty BEGGING for death because he's not afraid anymore. He's still TERRIFIED of death, but he realizes that time spent pulling him up is more time the group spends in Crawford, surrounded by walkers, in danger, because of HIS actions. He didn't want to be the cause of anymore death, so he faced his fear and told Lee to get everyone else out because he was sick and tired of getting people killed.

Ben finally grew up during the Crawford raid (at the end). He saw his teacher and his friend die just one week before, and then saw Carley/Doug, Kat, Duck, and Brie die because of his actions. After being plauged by guilt since the bandit raid in Episode 3, he finally puts the group ahead of himself. In the bell tower, he "turned over a new leaf", if you will.

Not in my playthrough. He's still the very same whining insecure worthless piece of coward shit that he used to be eversince he got introduced in Episode 2. Too bad he didn't end up as food instead of Mark.

I only saved him because I wanted to see what's gonna happen in Episode 5 if you bring retard Ben along, too. I killed him in my very first playthrough though and I was hoping Kenny might put him up, so I can kill him again until he gets the point.

FU, Ben! He caused 5 deaths, already and people are still like "Oooooh, poor boy! It's not your fault that your stupid actions led to people biting the dust!"

[NeonBlade]

I didn't drop him because he is not getting any easy ways out of this. He has a blood debt to me in my mind. Causing the death of Doug, Duck, Kat and Brie he isn't getting any exits and as long as he is alive he will find some way to truly make up for all of his bumbling.

With that said I left him back at the house with the boat, so I'll have to see in the future what he does.

[Sonic Boyster]

The scene was written horribly, and resolved terribly. Ben isn't a bad character, he's just a character that in the real world would have been shot or left behind to die ages ago. He's a total liability to the group and doesn't ever evolve as a character. Asking someone to drop him to his death isn't a sign of some newfound maturity, it's just more cowardice, and he's still dead weight eating food that could be going to the rest of our cast.

The fact that there's this stupidly dramatic scene about how there's no time and then you can just straight up pull him up with no consequence is what really killed it for me. Not only is it a reminder you're in a video game but you're sitting there with Karl who is in no threat at all just watching you deal with this decision from the window the whole time. Meh. Shoddy writing.

[fenom]

Originally Posted by Rock114

He probably didn't think about the stalker being out there looking for Clem either

But he should have considered "outside" a dangerous place stalker or no stalker being in a ZA, no? Actually one should be cautious even inside the house. It's a house, not fort knox. But fine let's just say that Ben is realistic and I just didn't knew the levels that stupidity can reach.

So Ben is ultra dumb +whatever else. It's a special case.

Don't you think that in a real life scenario Lee or someone else would deal with him before your choice is between death or not? Like have a serious but calm and honest sit down, agree on some things, I don't know.. something!
And based on that and future actions of Ben again worst case scenario to cast him out. I think the game failed at this. My point of view at least.

[MF25]

I wanted to throw him off the train as soon as he admitted being responsible for Carli's death, then again i wanted the fool dead as soon as he left Clem on her own surrounded by zombies. Like i said in another thread, i couldnt drop him quick enough!

[FladeIsCool]

Originally Posted by fenom

I didn't drop Ben... cause I didn't even tried to shoot the zombie.

The problem is that in reality I wouldn't have let him die and most probably no other player as well.

I let him die because it was the 1st chance the game gave me to deal with him in any way! Which is stupid by the way. This choice doesn't really say anything about the player and if anything is a failure of the game. We're supposed to be immersed to the game yet at that moment I was only thinking "I'm playing a game".


They make Ben so dumb and then FORCE him on you, without any chance to do something about it.
And not just dumb but I think that as a character he is poorly written, making him unrealistic and inconsistent. from the top of my head:

- Any person that wouldn't be any help with the zombies and feels kind of worthless or even guilty like Ben, would try his very best to help out in every non zombie situation. I mean fine you're that scared of zombies that you can't overcome it even for a child in danger, but you can't even babysit one in a SECURED area as the house with other people present no less? Instead he says to Lee something like get off my back? And attempts to drink with drunk Kenny to top it off?

- He wants to help out because he knows he's been pretty much worthless but if Lee tells him that well Ben you haven't been exactly helpful he gets pissed off.

- He's so afraid that he doesn't try to save Clem but is completely ok with falling, breaking 10 bones and be eaten ALIVE.

This kind of behavior is illogical to me and unrealistic. They could have made Ben even that stupid but at least sympathetic in some ways. Like if he was the guy that always keep an eye on Clem. Or give him some kind of ability like Doug for example who while no fighter material was helpful with anything electronics related. So then even if the game gave you a choice to cut him lose it wouldn't be a no brainer. They could even make it so that a member of the group dies if you chose to cut him lose because his ability would have helped, and make you feel guilty.


Instead they just make this beyond stupid Ben just being there with all the flaws at least I personally see, and force him time and time again to present you with this bs choice to force you to let him die. Well bravo then, clap clap.

I'm wondering... with Ben being as they made him, if there was a choice to cut him lose at some point, how many players that saved him would have voted for him to leave? Cause I'm betting a lot.

I will probably get yelled at for this.

Ben is pretty much a child compared to the other survivors, yet everyone wants him to make decisions like an adult. If Clementine would've doomed the survivors like that (which if you count talking to that guy on the walkie talkie, she pretty much did) then nobody would hate her or be genuinely bothered by her presence. Anyone in Ben's situation probably would've done the same thing.

[shedim]

Originally Posted by FladeIsCool

I will probably get yelled at for this.

Ben is pretty much a child compared to the other survivors, yet everyone wants him to make decisions like an adult. If Clementine would've doomed the survivors like that (which if you count talking to that guy on the walkie talkie, she pretty much did) then nobody would hate her or be genuinely bothered by her presence. Anyone in Ben's situation probably would've done the same thing.

Only issue here is idiot Ben is old enough that he should have known better.

[DreadMagus]

Don't blame the game because you didn't realize you could move your cursor and save him.

[Phoenix VII]

If the game wasn't so linear in forcing Ben on you I wouldn't have had to drop him since I'd have told him to leave a long time ago, I think that's the biggest mistake Telltale made concerning the character, you're just forced to be with him until you reach the pre-determined point in the episode where you can finally free yourself of him. In Episode 3 he made a secret deal that set into motion the events that lead to Duck, Katjaa, and Carley/Doug dying, Lilly going psycho, and Kenny losing everything he had lived for up to that point. Episode 4, Ben leaves Clem to the walkers, when he could've at least grabbed Clem's hand and run, resulting in Chuck having to step up and die, and then later he removes the hatchet from the main which results in Brie dying and could've easily enough lead to the whole group dying. Sure Ben's a realistic and scared 18 year-old that has his heart in the right place, but that doesn't change the fact that he hasn't been an asset, isn't even merely deadweight in which case I might be able to tolerate him, he's an outright liabilty and I was just begging the game for an opportunity to leave his ass behind in the house when the group went to raid Crawford, because I was sure he'd find a way to screw up, and he did. I went into Episode 4 with the mindset that Ben's incompetence was a bigger danger to the group's well-being than the walkers or any other people, and when I go on into Episode 5 there will be at least 1 less thing I have to worry about. That being said, I did gain some respect for him when he finally owed up to his mistakes like a man and admitted he was a screw-up, so I put in a good word for him with Clem.

Anyway, I don't really think of Ben as a badly written character, I thought he was very well-written, it's just that the game limits how you can deal with him far too severely.

[AsariTears]

Originally Posted by Sonic Boyster

The scene was written horribly, and resolved terribly. Ben isn't a bad character, he's just a character that in the real world would have been shot or left behind to die ages ago. He's a total liability to the group and doesn't ever evolve as a character. Asking someone to drop him to his death isn't a sign of some newfound maturity, it's just more cowardice, and he's still dead weight eating food that could be going to the rest of our cast.

The fact that there's this stupidly dramatic scene about how there's no time and then you can just straight up pull him up with no consequence is what really killed it for me. Not only is it a reminder you're in a video game but you're sitting there with Karl who is in no threat at all just watching you deal with this decision from the window the whole time. Meh. Shoddy writing.

Who's Karl?

[BlankCanvasDJ]

Man, I hope I'm never in a zombie apocalypse with the OP...

[BlackPaladin]

Originally Posted by shedim

Only issue here is idiot Ben is old enough that he should have known better.

Ben's actually the first instance in TWD universe we had a teenager his age that could represent a regular person. Glenn is fairly close in age, but he's more of a college student and had some real world experiece. Ben isn't a child growing up in this world. He's already grown up, and was now entering adulthood. When you're 17-18 you're at a stage in life where you're grown up but now you need to find yourself. It's a really tough period in life where you might experience a lot of failures and try to grow from them. For glenn he already was working as a delivery boy and when the appocalypse hit he had the skills necessary to scavenge supplies, so he found his spot. Ben never experienced that.

So he's thrown into a world of death where he has no known skills and doesn't know what to do. He's trying to help but keeps messing up, and in this world when you mess up, people die. So to me, he's extremely realistic. He was raised to be a good person and he has good intentions, but he keeps fucking up and it's killing him inside. His drop was him finally going "i won't be a burden any longer."

[Zer0Guy]

Originally Posted by BlackPaladin

Ben's actually the first instance in TWD universe we had a teenager his age that could represent a regular person. Glenn is fairly close in age, but he's more of a college student and had some real world experiece. Ben isn't a child growing up in this world. He's already grown up, and was now entering adulthood. When you're 17-18 you're at a stage in life where you're grown up but now you need to find yourself. It's a really tough period in life where you might experience a lot of failures and try to grow from them. For glenn he already was working as a delivery boy and when the appocalypse hit he had the skills necessary to scavenge supplies, so he found his spot. Ben never experienced that.

So he's thrown into a world of death where he has no known skills and doesn't know what to do. He's trying to help but keeps messing up, and in this world when you mess up, people die. So to me, he's extremely realistic. He was raised to be a good person and he has good intentions, but he keeps fucking up and it's killing him inside. His drop was him finally going "i won't be a burden any longer."

Chris and Julie would like to have a word with you.

[BlackPaladin]

Originally Posted by Zer0Guy

Chris and Julie would like to have a word with you.

No they were 16. They weren't 18 like ben, who would, if the ZA never happened, be going off to college/trade school that summer for the first time and begin to find himself. It's that time period that literally everyone I know went through a large change as they began to become adults. You can't compare that to early to mid teens which is an entirely different thing all together.