Ice Station Santa! Nov 9th

[Maratanos]

Originally Posted by taumel

Nope, i guess you're misunderstanding me, i've updated my posting so maybe it does make more sense to you now.

Sorry. I read your post again. Now read my post again, because it's been heavily edited. Then we can talk.

[Jake]

Also, if your tone is going to stay the same, take it to Private Messages, or at least to it's own thread outside the main Ice Station Santa thread, please.

[taumel]

@Maratanos
Again, i have to agree with most of the reviews. I wouldn't give Sam&Max a 9 or 10 yet because it mostly lacks those magic moments which lifts it above the good ones. Graphics, sound animations, eveything is fine most of the time but i'm missing this with the puzzles, the story and some characters.

Jack Keane had a few situations were it shines this way. Also the cops in Sam&Max came up with that feeling or the setup in 201 but it's not a steady companion. I also don't see this as a problem of the past vs. present as you always laugh about a good joke or you always worship a great riddle or a great atmosphere. I think we're scratching but we're just not fully there.

@Jake
Sorry if i offended someone as this wasn't my intention, i'm just curious about the why.

[Jake]

I didn't say anyone was offended, but you guys are arguing back and forth with each other, and have filled nearly a complete page with the two of you. I don't think it's benefiting anyone but you two, so I asked that you take it elsewhere (even just somewhere else on this board).

[Udvarnoky]

Originally Posted by Maratanos

No, YOU'RE missing the point. Maniac mansion scored in the 8-9 range and yet it's still a VERY SUCKY GAME INDEED. Mojo hits closer with a 2/5.

Maniac Mansion is the best game ever, and Mojo's review is considered unacceptable by all carbon-based organisms, and Alex has since been physically injured. Expect to see a re-review of the game that isn't a shameful outrage sometime before 2025.

[Maratanos]

Originally Posted by Jake

Also, if your tone is going to stay the same, take it to Private Messages, or at least to it's own thread outside the main Ice Station Santa thread, please.

Jake, you know that's a death sentence.

Don't really care. I was arguing with terminology anyway.

[Zeek]

Ah, the internet... where flame wars start through being over-passionate and having a little thing called annonimity... or is that anemone?

IN all seriousness, did anyone catch the GameTap TV ad for Season 2? I heard it last night when I turned on my TV, but the damn picture didn't show until the title card came up. Stupid analog TV... then again, my HD Monitor on my computer does the same thing.

[Linque]

Well, I hate to say it, but I think I'm growing out of the series. I bought the complete Season 2 set as I want to support the cause no matter if I play all the games or not. I gave Ice Station Santa a try, but I just can't enjoy the recycling of the characters, locations, music and the iffy timing and dialog in certain spots. I just don't enjoy playing these episodes enough. I made it to the end of Reality 2.0.

It was good fun for a while, but I think I'll go back to anticipating the old style full length games, opposed to episodic ones. I enjoy the higher production values of traditional releases. I'm still hopeful that maybe one day these TTG releases will reach such production values with this astonishing release rate.

Here's hoping for a great future,
Linque

[Jekill]

i'm flashed. i'm not intending to read anything anyone has posted on the last pages. i just have to tell you: TELLTALE GAMES I LOVE YOU. what you've done is incredible. i'm just through ice station santa, couldn't start before sunday night and only had some hours every night since, and now i'm through. and i have to say... it was so incredibly awesome, i can't believe it. you rule. thank you for that experience. this one episode was better than the whole of season one. and i loved season one. if you manage to keep that standard i'll be ashamed you received only 35 bucks from me. wow. i don't find the words. i just want you to know that ep201 was the FLIPPING BEST GAME i ever played. honestly. thank you. and thanks for putting me for the seventh time into the "thank you"-list

[taumel]

@Linque
That's the question, is it due to the episodic format or are the reasons somewhere else.

[Gurok]

Ah, the internet... where flame wars start through being over-passionate and having a little thing called annonimity... or is that anemone?

It's anonymity .

[Linque]

Originally Posted by Maratanos

Quit dragging your feet in nostalgia and recognize that as long as you idolize old adventure games as the pinnacle of greatness, you'll never find another game that you think lives up to the standard, because you'll always be comparing the two and your memory excises the bad parts of an old game that you loved. It's like getting dumped in a relationship. If you still get hung up on how awesome your ex is, you'll never see a great opportunity for another relationship if it slaps you in the face, because of nostalgia. Wake up, and get on with life.

I don't really care to involve myself in a lenghty argument that much, but I can't just let this go either. played Grim Fandango for the first time this spring. It has plenty of problems: bad movement system, quite a bit of pointless back and forth running and a stupid item interface. But got sucked in the world, I laughed to a lot of the jokes and got engrossed by the story. I wanted to tell about some of the jokes to my friends and was genuinely moved near the end of the game. I also felt empty when I finished it. I absolutely fell in love with Glottis.

A month ago I stumbled upon a playthrough of Sam & Max Hit the Road on YouTube. It was late and I had work early in the morning, but I just couldn't stop watching the playthrough. The intro is so incredibly funny no matter how many times you watch it. The chemistry between S&M is incredible. It's good enough for me to enjoy myself when I just *watch someone play the game*. And here we get to the TTG S&M Series. It's not the same. It's not as mesmerising as the games of old. It's good, no doubt about it - especially if you play just one or two episodes. But it also has flaws that aren't just gameplay related, but are related to the storytelling and entertainment aspect of the game, if you understand what I mean.

What I wanted to say this in a nutshell is, that it isn't just nostalgia that makes the classic games so great in my (and others') mind. I find it disrespectful that people brush those games off saying 'oh, they were good back in the day..."

[Toothbrush Creepwood]

And i also wouldn't say that just the reviews are voting this way as for instance with Ice Station Santa i came to a compareable result as others who were reviewing the episode. I'm enjoying Sam&Max much more than adventures the years before, but it's not sucking me as much into the game like with these old games due to different reasons

Yeah, and this reason is "Nostalgia"...;-)

Jack Keane had a few situations were it shines this way. Also the cops in Sam&Max came up with that feeling or the setup in 201 but it's not a steady companion. I also don't see this as a problem of the past vs. present as you always laugh about a good joke or you always worship a great riddle or a great atmosphere. I think we're scratching but we're just not fully there.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade but "Jack Keane" sucked bad. Laughable atempt from Germans to make a game similar to Monkey Island with a Guybrush Threepwood Clone and even Monkeys on an Island. Plus the typical german Adventure-humour, I hate so much these days. Unfortunatly, Germany is in some sort of way the biggest market for Adventures these days and many Games come from Germany. But most of them suck, suck, suck. Don't try to even compare them to old LA-Classics. And Jack Keana is the perfect example why it doesn't work: They totally fail to copy the humour of old LA-Classics. It was embarassing to me playing Jack Keane. Just because there are no better games on the market, doesn't mean the actual games are similar to old classics.

Point being: Sam&Max is the only game today that caputres the old Adventure Game Spirit an no Jack Keane, Runaway or &/%$&/&( Benoit Sokal games will come close to this.

[Zeek]

Originally Posted by Toothbrush Creepwood

Point being: Sam&Max is the only game today that caputres the old Adventure Game Spirit an no Jack Keane, Runaway or &/%$&/&( Benoit Sokal games will come close to this.

IT's also the only adventure game still holding an audiance given the failures before it.

[wisp]

what you are saying about germany is complete nonsense...



...there is no such thing as a typical german humour. anybody knows we have no humour at all.

[Toothbrush Creepwood]

Originally Posted by wisp

what you are saying about germany is complete nonsense...



...there is no such thing as a typical german humour. anybody knows we have no humour at all.

I'm from germany, so you're right...^^
And that's why most "funny" games made in germany suck!

[taumel]

I disagree...

As for Jack Keane, yes they tried to deliver a Monkey Island like pirate game and with a few riddles they succeeded and showed those tiny little bit which makes something great and not just average or good. But in a whole it isn't as good as Monkey Island. I wouldn't say that it's like other german adventures beside of Ankh as those mostly go a different route, it's all about Deck13. I also wonder what this german humour is you're talking about. Nail this to certain developers/person and it does make sense, otherwise it more sounds like a rant. Depending on your personal taste for most of the people i've talked to it's on pair with Sam&Max. Some found it slightly better, some slightly worse.

As for TTG's Sam&Max and so also for Ice Station Santa, it's enjoyable and good but just not awesome like some of the old adventures are. For example i've played Loom rather late, many years after it came out with a LucasArts gamepack and although it was so old, it had something which made it great and fascinating. And that's exactly what i'm missing in TTG's adventure episodes so far. Something which makes it really interesting, weird new ideas, great riddles (still no inventory puzzles), a more thrilling story or characters i do care more about. Just something which makes me shiver like Loom managed to.

Sam&Max is polished and aspects like the music are great but no matter how polished it is, it's missing those important edges and as there are veterans with TTG on board i'm asking myself why is this the case? Does it have to do with that making something great would drag too much ressources? Doesn't it fit into the episodic schedule? Did they forget about making something outstanding? Is it a lack of motivation because something good sells as well? Do they think it's on the same level? Do they try to but you just can't plan it? Is this about to come? ...

I mean with such members it somehow feels hard to believe to think of that they don't know how to do it or that they don't understand what some people (gamers as critics) are talking about.

Bringing it back to 201 i think that riddles like the portal ones are really nothing i do expect in a great adventure. You do one two things and whoops it's solved, Now to this another two times and you're through. This felt constructed to me and not nicely fitting into the game/story. I miss some longer riddles in between here which evlove with the current situation or the story. And and and

...back to work.

[Toothbrush Creepwood]

Depending on your personal taste for most of the people i've talked to it's on pair with Sam&Max. Some found it slightly better, some slightly worse.

No way...are you just trying to compare the humour in "Jack Keane" to "Sam&Max"? Or the game itself?

For the rest:Okay, I understand your point, but in the end, it all comes down to the personal taste. For me, and I played Sam&Max when it was released with no Voice Acting at all, the new Game is the best, modern Adventure to date. While for example "Grim Fandango" was great in Design, Flair etc. the Characters looked teribble and the Controls were horrible. Monkey Island 4 was a desaster! I'm so glad, Telltale made S&M and it went out beautyiful!


A perfect example for a bad german Adventure is "Geheimakte Tunguska". Good 2-D Graphics but a promising story going from awesome in the beginning to boring in the end. Lame humour + NO Sympathy for the characters.

[taumel]

The game in a whole. Finally i don't care this much about technical issues if the game is working. It's always a relief if that's nicely done but it's not in the main focus unless it turns into something really annoying.

[barchetta]

I haven't following this thread, so I'm just jumping right in, as it is the thread about Ice Station Santa, isn't it?

Okay.
I liked it, because it probably was the first S&M adventure (or -any- adventure for that matter, since The Hobbit on my ZX Spectrum back in '83 ...) that I managed to complete without too much cheating

What I didn't quite like was the continuation of Season 1: Max still being president, the C.O.P.S. still being around, Lincoln's head. If it was only Sybil, Bosco and Jimmy Two-teeth, it'd be okay for me.

I also liked the 'Back to the future' paradox with Jimmy, as he was wearing the boxing glove that he lost in the past, but was given back to him from the present time in the past... you know what I mean..!.

The story was very funny, and I had this song of 'Weird' Al Yankovic playing in my head: 'The Night Santa Went Crazy':
Animation with gory* scenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-Mce9VpmY
Live performance of the "Extra gory* version": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iKRAnJ6u3M

I hope the next episode will just be as enjoyable for me as this one

Marc

* 'Gory' to a 4 year old, not to S&M players