The Case Against Kenny

[Moonbaby]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Saying a character did that because "thats how TT designed the game" isnt really a great argument. I could say that you can lose Kenny's loyalty and have him not help Clem because thats how the game was designed and doesnt reflect on his character at all. Is it Using some game evidence and then disregarding another piece because its how the game was designed just seems stupid.

And they could hardly wait until Larry was up and biting people before doing anything. The guy was freaking huge and the only safe and sensible time to kill Larry was before he reaminated. The guy was a freaking time bomb and if he died immediatly after the heart attack, then he was probably seconds from reaminating. It was a last resort. And i hope that never happens aswell, but I dont have any family members Larry sized. And i probably wouldnt be locked in a small room with my dieing family member anyway.

He destroyed one, ruined another and possibly saved the lives of literally everyone in the group. If Larry turned, four people probably die in the meat locker, two more are kept captive and possibly eaten and another two are approaching and have no freaking clue whats going on.

My Kenny helped me fight Danny, so i dont know what youre talking about :P
I wouldnt really blame him if he didnt, the guy had a gun and Kenny did not. And you had just made him do something which will haunt him for the rest of his life.

Andy was holding Duck hostage and Kenny was freaking the hell out. He was desperate to free Duck ASAP and thought he could rush Andy in time. I dont blame him, i could hardly imagine what its like, seeing you're son held at gunpoint by a sick twisted cannibal.

Kenny hasnt really done anything that makes me think he is stupid. When his family is not at risk, he thinks things through, like the girl situation and with the food, and makes the right call. When his family is threatened or have been recently killed, then he is less likely and i understand that totally.

Lol, You're just not getting it dude. You're saying that Lee gets a ride from Kenny because Kenny has a code of ethics. Uh no. Go back and replay the game dude, one of the first things Kenny tells Lee is that he can use someone to busts heads together. You act as if Kenny is doing Lee a favor out of his infinite goodness yet fail to address the real motive for his actions in taking lee which is that he's using Lee as a means to protect his family. Do you not understand this?

You yourself wrote that it doesn't matter if you are good or bad to Kenny because he will take Lee anyway which proves my point. If Lee was an asshole to Kenny, why would Kenny take Lee?

Would Kenny take a chance against the safety of his family by taking an asshole in his RV?

Would it be ethical to keep a dangerous "urban" asshole around his family or does Kenny's code of ethics only apply to Lee?

So does Kenny have a choice on whether he takes Lee or not in the game?

Did telltale design the game so that Kenny and Lee must go together to macon?

Are you missing something???

Im not the one disregarding evidence, you're the one who selectively chooses what u see. All of it:

Ep 1 - He abandons Shawn, literally runs off, even though his child is safe

Ep 2 - He suggests you might be useful at lockpicking because you're "urban"

Ep 2 - He kills Larry as you're trying to save him

Ep 2 - He tells you he'll back you up handling Danny St John, instead he leaves you to die

Ep 3 - He causes a massive argument at the motel over leaving and is the root cause of the paranoia that leads to Carley, Duck and Katjaa dying.

Ep 3 - He once again leaves you to die as you're trapped under a door

Ep 3 - He drops you while trying to get on the truck

Ep 3 - He fucks you over by blabbing about the girl you kill/leave to die infront of Clem

Ep 3 - He tells you your criminal past will be a factor in getting a place on his boat

Ep 3 - He tells you to leave Lilly behind to die, both at the motel and on the road

Ep 4 - He drops you again when trying to escape up the fire escape.

Ep 4 - He wills you to let Ben die

Ep 4 - He refuses to help save Clem


Take a good look at Kenny's craptacular actions. The burden is on you to rebutt the presumption and so far all I hear is semantics. His actions speak for themselves.

[slough]

@Moonbaby: I'm a pretty big Kenny fan but that's while knowing that he can be a coward and an idiot. That's what makes me like him; I really like multi-faceted, imperfect characters.

The one [two?] flaw[s] I see in your argument is the dropping thing. He does it regardless of how good you are in with him, and that's because he has a wound that is barely a week old. He didn't drop Lee willfully. I mean, did you HEAR him wince and moan in pain in both episodes?

I disagree with your first plotpoint for Episode 3. Ben is the cause of everything. The Lilly/Kenny thing had gone on since they first met, and the increased tensions happened because of the bandit attacks. Kenny got anxious about protecting his family in the case of a night attack, and Lilly got anxious because she saw that supplies were going missing - and both can be blamed on Ben.

I'm not going to argue about the other points you made because it doesn't seem as if you're going to see Kenny's side on anything.

Edit: For the record, I don't think there's a character I hate in this game. So don't say that I hate Lilly/Larry/Ben because you'll look silly.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

This is a post which I shall be constantly editing because TT keeps logging be out and deleting my saved stuff so bear with me

With Shawn, for all Kenny knew the farm was falling and zombies were approaching from all sides. His reaction to when his family is in danger is to grab em and GTFO, he's sure as hell not going to leave them alone to help someone else. I understand and forgive this and so should you.

His racist remark seems to show a lack of a proper education and something he grew up with in Florida. It doesn't seem offensive and its not like he treats Lee badly or impolitely so I don't really see why you would be so offended.

If you help Larry, you put Duck and Katjaa of risk of a slow and extremely horrible death, being eaten slowly and picked apart by cannibals. Not to mention Kenny's own and everyone else's lives but that probably means less to Kenny. And you do it for some old bastard who punched you after you got him medicine and who is a general dick to everyone. I don't blame Ken for taking the initiative and doing what you couldn't.

Less leave you to die and more doesn't charge a man with a gun. Again I don't blame him. You put Larry above his family, and risked them getting horrible deaths. Not to mention above Kenny who saved your life when Larry tried to kill you.

I refer to my previous point.

Kenny was obviously right about leaving though. The bandits were clearly attacking constantly and when they stopped, it's clear they were planning something. If they had taken Kenny's advice, Duck and Katjaa and Carely would still be alive. The paranoia was about the traitor givin supplies anyway so you are just wrong.

You blame a guy who was recently shot for accidentally dropping you? Nice

Was this in ep 3? I can't exactly remember but I don't recall Clem hearing about the girl.

Well of course it makes a decision. If you have to choose between convicted murderer and normal person to take on the boat, of course you will choose the normal guy. He would be stupid or lying to just say "Aw that's fine. That's not going to affect my decision on who gets left behind, it doesn't even matter" You should be grateful for the honesty. He told my Lee something different though.

Doing so at both time made sense. At the motel, zombies and bandits were approaching and it was chaos. The group is sitting in a vulnerable RV and they had to leave ASAP. Better one die than the RV getting damaged and they all die. On the road, Lilly had just freaking shot Carely for no good reason. She ha clearly gone crazy and was now a loose cannon. He was proved right when you take her and she steals the RV later on aswell.

The guy was shot, what do ya expect? Blaming him for that makes you look mean.

Well duh! Of course he wants you to kill Ben, he just found out that he was indirectly responsible for his family's death. And we know the family is the thing he cared about most in the world. He hasn't even recovered from the tragedy yet, they died pretty recently. Im surprised he never just shot Ben to be honest.

He refuses to help you because all of the above.

Ok, I did my best to address all of you're points. I gotta go to bed, so if another Pro-Kenny can fight his corner, I would really appreciate it.

I feel like I have to post this again for Moonbaby, especially since more of his reasons for hating Kenny were already listed by the OP. Also Ben was the real cause for paranoia, not Kenny.

And even if Kenny didn't give you a ride out of kindness, he still saved you're life in the pharmacy, no matter how much of a dick to him you were.

[Viser]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I feel like I have to post this again for Moonbaby, especially since more of his reasons for hating Kenny were already listed by the OP. Also Ben was the real cause for paranoia, not Kenny.

And even if Kenny didn't give you a ride out of kindness, he still saved you're life in the pharmacy, no matter how much of a dick to him you were.

I dislike Kenny but I think this thread is a bit unfair. But about your post, it's pretty obvious the cause for Lilly's paranoia was her dad having his head smashed in right in front of her and her not being able to do anything about it.

The fact she became paranoid led to her finding out that the supply count was being messed with and thinking the person who had the deal with the bandits deserved to die. But I don't blame anyone for it, because I see no point in playing the blame game.

[Grimfango]

We've all got our faults, Yeah he can be a bit of an arse and say the wrong thing, but Kenny's a helpful guy. He's a do-er, always there to help clear out areas and make sure the group is safe and he's always had my back. You'll have to go through my version of Lee before you use Kenny as zombie bait!

[Marumochi]

Originally Posted by Malphaxis

says the guy with the x wife.
I find that ironically funny.

Wow, that was incredibly low.

[Malphaxis]

Originally Posted by Marumochi

Wow, that was incredibly low.

Taken out of context, perhaps so.
But then, tact isnt my strong suit.

[Profanity]

Originally Posted by Grimfango

We've all got our faults, Yeah he can be a bit of an arse and say the wrong thing, but Kenny's a helpful guy. He's a do-er, always there to help clear out areas and make sure the group is safe and he's always had my back. You'll have to go through my version of Lee before you use Kenny as zombie bait!

He's a very bank...ish person. If you make a positive deposit, you better cash it out as quick as you can, because if you won't keep making the deposits every now and then, the bank will close, forgetting about all the money that you poured it into before this week's quota.

[zfan330]

Originally Posted by Malphaxis

says the guy with the x wife.
I find that ironically funny.

So tell me, you wouldnt have gone for your kid first?
You wouldnt have moved him to a safe place or tried to pass him off to his mom before heading back to the danger?
Really?
And where was Hershal while his son was in danger?
The event is scripted as it is, but if he would have run with the pitchfork in his hands to his son instead of going for a gun, well..



PC chair arbiters are a funny bunch.
Im referring to my time in combat where if its zombies or Op-For, it doesnt matter when your life and the lives of those depending on you are on the line.
I make the reference and I stand behind the statement because if you haven't ever been in a life or death situation, then you dont know how you'd really react.
Its easy to judge when you've no idea.

/done

Whats so funny about an x wife? What does that have to do with character? What are you 10 or visiting us from the 50s?

Yes I would have gone for my kids first. What does that have to do with kenny proving time and time again to be a cowardly selfish person?

Nothing is as pathetic as chair-born rangers.
Like I said before I dont get in that stuff like that on the internet. You would likely not believe me anymore then I believe you. Which is not at all. Too many prepubescent tough guys, that lived safe sheltered lives become John Rambo killstuffdaily in-front of a keyboard.
Where Im from we have a saying.
"Those that know wont tell, and those that'll tell dont know."

[Evinshir]

Originally Posted by slough

I disagree with your first plotpoint for Episode 3. Ben is the cause of everything. The Lilly/Kenny thing had gone on since they first met, and the increased tensions happened because of the bandit attacks. Kenny got anxious about protecting his family in the case of a night attack, and Lilly got anxious because she saw that supplies were going missing - and both can be blamed on Ben.

Actually, Ben's actions are more the fault of Kenny and Lily's arguing. Because of their hostility and bickering, Ben was too scared to come to them about the Bandits and naively hoped that if he kept supplying the bandits then the group would be safe. Unfortunately that just fed the paranoia between Kenny and Lily.

But if Kenny and Lily hadn't been so pig-headed, Ben probably would have never gone behind everyone's backs.

Ultimately, Kenny is a well-meaning guy but he's also a self-serving coward when things get too hot. He's consistently making bad decisions and then blaming the results on others.

Seriously, Kenny can be a good guy - but he's unreliable and unstable even at the best of times.

[Malphaxis]

Originally Posted by zfan330

Whats so funny about an x wife? What does that have to do with character? What are you 10 or visiting us from the 50s?

Yes I would have gone for my kids first. What does that have to do with kenny proving time and time again to be a cowardly selfish person?

Nothing is as pathetic as chair-born rangers.
Like I said before I dont get in that stuff like that on the internet. You would likely not believe me anymore then I believe you. Which is not at all. Too many prepubescent tough guys, that lived safe sheltered lives become John Rambo killstuffdaily in-front of a keyboard.
Where Im from we have a saying.
"Those that know wont tell, and those that'll tell dont know."

I not gonna list all my qualifivations for you. I will say that I speaking from experiences that few share. I my time I made almost a hundred staticline jumps dozens of free falls and 3 combat jumps. Youve apparently no concept of what Im talking about or how li'l it matters to me if you believe that or not. And I sill find it amusing that someone would use their tales of a failed marrage in a discussion about morality.

[Malphaxis]

Im coming from a place where promises made and oaths & vows taken mean something. . One of the reasons I will no longer hump a rifle for this nation is because of the knd of pseudo morality thats being preached by PC armchair quarterbacks who would force our milittary women to wear a hijab if they would venture out in public without a male escort or condem a soldier for pissing on their vanquished foes, the likes of who would shoot a li'l girl in the face for standing up for her right to an education.

[Malphaxis]

And to be honest, ( Im guilty as well) its all moot as we're arguing the morality of actions in a scripted event designed to move the story line along a predetermined direction. It would be just as easy to condem Hershel for not running towards the action with thee pitchfork that was in his hands instead of going for the shotgun, if he cared somuch for his sons safety and wellwell being.