Star Trek... the Next Thread

[BagginsKQ]

**IRISHMILE EDIT** ok here is your Star Trek thread instead of talking about it on the Kings Quest section.. Enjoy.. we will now return to your previous conversation.............
** END IRISHMILE EDIT**

I'd surely like to ignore the last Star Trek movie (what kind of writer destroys "Romulus and Remus" in an offscreen/minor incident, rather than focusing on it as a major movie in its own right/Why ignore 60 years of Star Trek time travel mechanics? I.E. if you change time, your previous timeline ceases to exist/paradox created, I.E. City on the Edge of Forever (Original Series), Yesterday's Enterprise (TNG) or Past Tense on DS9, etc, thus the need for Temporal Prime Directives, and an agency that monitors for changes in the timeline?)

http://www.tunequest.org/star-trek-2...ency/20090604/

...or the last episode of Enterprise...

Oh well... unfortunately all future Star Trek shows and movies will take those into account... Nothing I can do about it...

[MusicallyInspired]

It's called a reboot, Baggins, and it was the best way to do it while still acknowledging the last 60 years of canon. He could have just changed everything for no reason. At least this has a reason. I loved the movie, looking forward to the next one. And I prefer the prime timeline.

[BagginsKQ]

Reboots should stay reboots, and do not tie into old universes at all ('time travel' in this case)... Trying to make some quasi-reboot is rediculous...

Also it wasn't advertised as a 'reboot' actually... They said it was neither a reboot, nor was it a 'continuation'/prequel to the original universe...

http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/11/abra...ot-or-prequel/

Q: What made you touch Star Trek?
JJ: I think it was the opportunity to tell a story that was based on a world and characters that I felt were just compelling and optimistic and the opportunity to treat that universe with a kind of energy and excitement and the resources we had. It didn’t feel like a classic reboot or prequel. It is a brand new thing inspired by characters that are poised to make a big comeback

If it was a reboot, it would have no effect on the original universe... Romulus and Remus would still exist, and Spock would be in that universe... But oh wait, because Star Trek XI was not a true 'reboot', but rather a time travel story gone awry, it left its mark on the regular universe... Reboots don't do that...

[MusicallyInspired]

Hater. The series will always be there.

[BagginsKQ]

Yes, I hate Star Trek 2009. That is my right... I thought it was a cheesy movie, with bad acting (worse than usual, actually) (some was good, most was bad)... It was more Star Wars, than Star Trek... With ridiculous ideas and lines like "Red Matter".... and "Supernova"s that destroy universes" (uh right, ever check out Bad Astronomy website?)! Of course, all that overuse of solar flares, and colored lighting... The overly 'MacStore like bridge", and the obvious use of a "brewery" used for engineering deck... Plus a spock that's so out of character, if you compare him to his City on the Edge of Forever's "rules of timetravel".

The movie was made for a generation of people with ADD... There is very little of the 'cerebral'/'human condition' aspects of classic trek...

I won't even go into what I think of what Lucas did to the Star Wars films.., or continues to do them... Lucas has churned out some of the worst movies ever, through his edits, made some of the 'better acting' worse....

[Blackthorne519]

I liked Star Trek 2009. A lot.

I liked it better than I like KQVII and MOE!


Bt

[BagginsKQ]

I liked Star Wars: Episode 1 better than I like Star Trek XI, and that's not saying much... Both are horrible movies...

I don't much care for JJ Abrams stuff at all, or Lucas anymore...

Telltale's Games make better movies, and have better stories than Star Trek XI... That's pretty scary...

[MusicallyInspired]

Can't really agree there...

[GuybrushWilco]

Whatever Lucas may have done to the prequels, Star Wars would not exist at all if it weren't for him, and same with Indiana Jones. Also, Willow is an underrated movie.

[BagginsKQ]

After what he has done to the movies, and with his continued tinkering, maybe things would have been better off without the movies... I stopped buying the movies as soon as I figured out that the only reason he appears to tinker with them, is so that he can sell more editions to gullible fans...

As for Indiana Jones, that movie is seriously more Spielburg's influence than Lucas... But eh Spielburg can be just as bad when it comes to rediculous tinkering and 'censership', see ET special edition...

BTW, I'm not a big fan of hollywood in general... Sitting down to watch a movie, when I have other better things to do, doesn't really interest me! I don't watch adventures, I live the adventures!

I also prefer reading, my imagination is better than any CGI that movies can throw at me...

[exo]

Originally Posted by GuybrushWilco

Whatever Lucas may have done to the prequels, Star Wars would not exist at all if it weren't for him, and same with Indiana Jones. Also, Willow is an underrated movie.

He doesn't get a free pass from me just because he accidentally stumbled across a decent movie back then. If you watch documentaries about the inception of the original three star wars movies you will see just how much of them came from sources other than Lucas. He only directed one, the actor's were making up their own lines, and lucas had nothing to do with imagining the different creatures. Yet somehow people act like star wars was all lucas.

All lucas was responsible for was ripping some basic designs and story from the seven samurai and then letting a bunch of creative people turn it into something decent. We saw what happens when Lucas gets total control over a star wars project. Characters are designed just for marketing toys, aliens speak in absolutely ridiculous accents rather than alien languages, he pads movie with giant overly long action sequences, and vader becomes a whiny bitch.

[BagginsKQ]

aliens speak in absolutely ridiculous accents rather than alien languages

Racist stereotypes might be a more apt description...

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

Why ignore 60 years of Star Trek time travel mechanics? I.E. if you change time, your previous timeline ceases to exist/paradox created, I.E. City on the Edge of Forever (Original Series), Yesterday's Enterprise (TNG) or Past Tense on DS9, etc, thus the need for Temporal Prime Directives, and an agency that monitors for changes in the timeline?)

You obviously don't watch enough Trek. The TNG episode Parallels explains the concept that "anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities." In that episode, Worf was being pushed from one alternate timeline to another to another. Also, this parallel universe concept is used with regard to the Mirror Universe which was introduced in the TOS episode Mirror, Mirror and was used in various episodes of DS9 and ENT.

Also, you cite Yesterday's Enterprise as evidence of time paradox, but The Enterprise-C didn't go back in time to prevent a paradox (as everyone considered that it should stay until Guinan changed Picard's mind); rather, they went back because the Klingons were about to win the war--a war which the Enterprise-C could have entirely prevented in the past by returning to fight at Narendra III. Similar said for City on the Edge of Forever and Past Tense. These episodes aren't about preventing paradoxes, but about restoring the known universe to the timeline which the time-travellers are familiar with.

[BagginsKQ]

You obviously don't watch enough Trek.

Actually I've been watching through them in the last few months... So they are fresh in my mind... Just went through Nextgen, and I am now working my way through DS9...

You obviously don't watch enough Trek. The TNG episode Parallels explains the concept that "anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities." In that episode, Worf was being pushed from one alternate timeline to another to another. Also, this parallel universe concept is used with regard to the Mirror Universe which was introduced in the TOS episode Mirror, Mirror and was used in various episodes of DS9 and ENT.

Actually in 'parallels', and other parallel universes, like the mirror universe, or Lazarus anti-matter universe, its explained that they universes exist outside the actions of 'prime universe'. Actions in one universe, has no influence on actions of another... and vice versa...

A choice in prime universe, doesn't spinoff another 'alternate universe'. The previous timeline simply doesn't exist, it ceases to exist.

That's why Spock, Guinan, and in Temporal Agents in DS9 and Voyager, go out of there way to fix history, investigate those who try to change time, and prevent history from being changed... All 'choices', do affect a single timeline the prime universe, and any 'travels' back in time, rewrites the future. Thus having to fix things through the Guardian by making sure Edith Keeler dies, 'Gabriel Bell' having to 'die' defending the hostages during the Bell Riots, or by sending Enterprise-C back to be destroyed in its own time...

In many of these cases, when time isn't fixed, the Federation ceases to exist, or is destroyed... Only a few characters from the regular timeline continue exist (but see that things are different), because they are protected in a timeless state, or chroniton particles etc...

Guinan is interesting because she exists in a way on multiple timestreams, and is capable of seeing when somethign has changed the prime timeline, and thus knowing it needs to be fixed... See Yesterday's Enterprise.

If 'quantam theory' was in affect, there would be no reason to have temporal police, because time could never be changed, and there would be no way to fix it. they would just be creating new 'parallel universes', splitting off from the others.

of course, let's not forget All Good Things, where the Anti-Time eruption, is growing bigger as it goes further back in time, and threatens destroying the creation fo the entire prime universe! Unless, Picard figured out how to stop it before it was created, and allowing 'present'! Correcting the timeline, and destroying the anti-time past, and anti-time future events.... Once fixed, the present went on, as if it events never happened!

Of course, in First Contact, there is the whole plot that they have to go back and stop the borg, or First Contact will never happen, and Earth and universe is assimilated... they briefly see for a moment Earth covered in borg cities... The idea is that they were worried about 'fixing the timeline they came from', rather than worrying about creating a new timeline in a new universe ('splitting' timeline)...

Enterprise even took that further, by showing that Archer being 'brought' to the future, wiped out the creation of the Federation, and allowed the others in the Temporal Cold War a chance to win...

But yes, my point is that time travelers know that they have 'restore' time... That's the problem with Star Trek 2009... Spock is out of character, because in the past shows, he knew that 'time had to be restored' (see all original series time travel episodes). Otherwise time as he understood ceased to exist... But in 2009 movie, he doesn't care to correct things, and decides to let the events develop on its own ('let them choose events for themselves.)

BTW, for that matter, the temporal agents, who spend there time shielded from time changes (so that they can go back and fix things), should have noticed something such as the Kelvin being destroyed, or Vulcan being destroyed, and going back to 'fix' things themselves! So ya, the movie creates certain plotholes with the rest of the series, by trying to shove itself into the regular series universe with its time travel story...

I suppose, if it turns out that Spock didn't 'go back in time', but rather went back into the past of a separate universe (like the Tholians did in In a Mirror, Darkley/Tholian's Web), then it wouldn't 'erase' the prime universe (ala mechanics of the regular trek series)... However, Nero's actions to 'destroy Vulcan' would be kind of pointless, since he's not destroying Spock's world, but some other universes's Vulcan... But then again Nero, is a rather ridiculous villain in general... Why did he spend 20 years sitting around, instead of going around causing trouble to the federation... Or why didn't he try to warn the Romulans of their world's doom from the 'galaxy destroying supernova' (as spock puts it)... The movie is so full of plotholes...

Also, the whole, "escaping' a black hole.... By jettising your warp core, and riding the explosion.... Hahahahhahahahahha..... Ya right....

In anycase, this essay pretty much clearly mentions and describes the descrepencies of classic trek time travel, and Star Trek XI's version of time travel (he still acknowledges the issue, though I suspect, he actually likes Star Trek XI)...

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/tr...vel-trekxi.htm

[Blackthorne519]

My fucking brain just exploded.

I need to read some Dr. Suess right now to feel better.


Bt

[exo]

ahahahahaha, reading that was great. it was like an amazing logic bitch slap.

doesn't watch enough star trek my ass...hahahaha

[Blackthorne519]

There's only one reason why the 2009 movie has time travelers behaving different.



Money trumps fiction logic every time!


Bt

[BagginsKQ]

Money is the reason alot of crappy sequels and remakes are made also... Think Highlander series... Jaws, or the prequel star wars films, or the many edited versions of star wars films... Planet of the Apes series also comes to mind...

Etc...

[MusicallyInspired]

Star Trek 09 is far better than all of those.

The planet of the apes reboot wasn't so bad. I haven't seen the latest one but I hear that was good as well. That last Highlander movie wasn't so bad (where Lambert's character dies).

[BagginsKQ]

http://m.news24.com/channel24/Movies...eries-20111229

star Trek 2009 could have been better and more consistent with the rest of the series if Abrams had actually been a fan of the series but he wasn't and isn't.

They only hired him because he makes the big bucks... But eh IMO his movie was generic, cliche, predicable and derivative like most movies in recent years... It doesn't make you think, and is just there to be mindless entertainment... Frankly perfect for the ADD riddled populous....

Actually the plot has quite a few similarities to other Abrams offerings... Just set in space... You can pretty much watch any two of his series and. Office how they tend recycle many of the same ideas, mysteries, including similar time travel plots... He is a seriously overhyped producer/director...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/yd0j97RhZUQ

People worry about telltale pulling of King's Quest when the developers have stated they were never fans...