Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

[The13thRonin]

As I said in another thread:

"I don't care how good the story is. If you say the consequences are going to matter and then they matter about as much as deciding whether to wear the blue tie or the red tie to work then you have failed to make the game you set out to make . I'm not saying it's not a good game but it's certainly not the game that they said it was going to be.

If you sell someone a waffle iron that can't make waffles, but ends up making a pretty good paperweight people are going to be pissed that the thing they bought to make waffles is failing to make waffles.

I can understand people liking the game but if you truly like it and consider yourself a fan then you should want it to get better and if you want it to get better you have to be honest with it. Did it do what it set out to do? Not really... Was it a terrible piece of crap? Certainly not. How could it be improved? By making the decisions more consequential in Season 2 and delivering a better final payoff."

I like Telltales ability to create a story but for Season 2 I want to see them do something truly innovative and make it the players story... Not Telltales... Make our decisions ACTUALLY matter!

[englishnick]

They kinda had to kill Lee to make a second season fresh I suppose... but i dunno. Like a lot of people.. I was and am pretty devastated about it... as much for Clementine's loss as Lee's. Whoever wrote that she would finally see her undead parents (thus destroying her admittedly, naive wild hopes) and then half an hour later have to shoot her last source of love and affection in the face is one cold-hearted SOB....

I kinda think it'd be nice if TTG made a sort of alternate reality DLC episode where Clem doesn't run off, Lee doesn't get bitten, and they use the boat to get away. It'd be schmalzy as hell... and it wouldn't have to be part of the canon of the main story. I dunno... maybe it could be an unlock for beating the game with the regular kick-in-the-guts ending... you could select a "happy ending" play-through at the start and do it all again.

Stupid I know... but I'd pay for it.

[Tienak]

Originally Posted by Edzix

It has been announced, that there will be season 2.

The producers(or whatever) from TTL have stated that its about the journey. Ending(outcome) will basically be the same, but its the choices along the road that gives you the feeling of making your own story. I believe that it was discussed on "Playing dead", so I don't feel like they've mislead us. Of course I would have loved if there were more freedom and choices had more impact, but I think that they just didn't have time/resources for that this time and hope that for season 2 they will fix this..

The problem with that is not all of us followed every single meeting because we didn't want to know anything about it, I know I certainly didn't. The game stated every single time I loaded up a chaptor that my choices tailor the story, that's what I see each time I play, nothing about some pretentious "Journey".
The next season has to be more clear on what we're getting ourselves in for, it's a great game there is no denying that but it was still very disapointing that for those of us who didn't watch interviews, got mislead.

Most of the cringy moments in the game came from the writer clearly wanting the player to do certain things, but us not doing it.
The main villan is proof of that, he was picking straws with reasons to hate my Lee, the fact they make him say "Yeah, well...you lead her to that canibal place! HA! GOT YOU!" was stupid as I had no power over that, I didn't have the option to tell Clementine to go back and I don't think Clementine would be the type to say "Oh, Lee didn't ASK me to go back..."
I can't remeber the others but to sum them up it was as if he was picking straws to hate Lee, he had no motives to work with because my choices had lead him to that.

It's coming up to Christmas and more importantly, the steam sales. They obviously rushed this game out to meet demands and for the most part they did a good job, if they had cut out the epilogue and just blacked out the screen when Lee died, that would've been fine.
I still think it's bad game design to give the player an option that means nothing, why chop off the arm if it does nothing? Why save ben if he dies anyway? Just feels pointless, sure, we get some extra dialogue but it mounts to nothing, it feels like it mounted to nothing.

Yeah I save Clementine but why was I asked over and over "Hey, do you want the invincible couple to take care of her?" only for the writer to go "No. MY STORY MY ENDING!" what was the point?
You can try and tell me this was for the journey but why would I take this journey again when the last time it lead to disapointment and frustration? Sure, it was a good game, it is an accomplishment in many many ways but this is the wrong way of ending such a great game, it deserves better.

[Eterna5]

Oh God, this reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 forums.

"Shepurd didn't live and I am mad!1"

Please, don't become the BSN. Not everything ends happily.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

Originally Posted by Eterna5

Oh God, this reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 forums.

"Shepurd didn't live and I am mad!1"

Please, don't become the BSN. Not everything ends happily.

They promised your choices would matter and drastically affect the ending of Mass Effect 3... it didn't.

They called Mass Effect 'hard sci-fi.'

The ending forces Shepard to act out of character and drastically alters established lore (in a bad way.)

Yeah, I'd say it's more than just Shepard dying.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

[QUOTE=Tienak;734402]The problem with that is not all of us followed every single meeting because we didn't want to know anything about it, I know I certainly didn't. The game stated every single time I loaded up a chaptor that my choices tailor the story, that's what I see each time I play, nothing about some pretentious "Journey".
The next season has to be more clear on what we're getting ourselves in for, it's a great game there is no denying that but it was still very disapointing that for those of us who didn't watch interviews, got mislead.

Most of the cringy moments in the game came from the writer clearly wanting the player to do certain things, but us not doing it.
The main villan is proof of that, he was picking straws with reasons to hate my Lee, the fact they make him say "Yeah, well...you lead her to that canibal place! HA! GOT YOU!" was stupid as I had no power over that, I didn't have the option to tell Clementine to go back and I don't think Clementine would be the type to say "Oh, Lee didn't ASK me to go back..."
QUOTE]

My mental reaction was something like "Sorry, I ddin't notice the signpost that said 'Danger: Cannibals ahead'."

[Zeruis]

In the only way that episode 5 was a disappointment to me is that Lee died. Otherwise, Telltale has made an amazing game that will likely win many goty awards.

[Hazevamp]

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

They promised your choices would matter and drastically affect the ending of Mass Effect 3... it didn't.

They called Mass Effect 'hard sci-fi.'

The ending forces Shepard to act out of character and drastically alters established lore (in a bad way.)

Yeah, I'd say it's more than just Shepard dying.

True, plus there is an ending where Shepard does live. You just have to have an EMS score of 5000 I believe to get it. Which forces you to play multiplayer. i don't why telltale defenders are trying to make it seem like it's all about Lee dying in the end. It's about the company promising something they didn't bother to deliver.

[Eterna5]

Look guys, I'm going to be blunt. If you came into this game expecting to find a sense of accomplishment from beating it, you were sorely mistaken. zif you even thought you'd get a bittersweet ending you were also mistaken.

I've read every Walking Dead comic, watched every show, and now played every game this series has to offer, I love it. And I feel as though this ending does the series and what it's trying to convey justice.

The television show, Comics and games may be different mediums, but they all have one thing in common: Everybody dies. No matter how attached you get to a character, no matter how significant you think they are to the plot, they will inevitably die. Clementine? She too will eventually bite the dust, hell it may even be in season two. No character is ever safe. So I'll say it again, everybody dies.

If you can't accept this fact, and if you can't accept the fact that this series will never, ever make you feel triumphant at the end, then the walking dead is not for you. Because this series bases itself around the concept of Death and loss.

[Alkio]

It wasnt a bad ending, u have to understand that this is the apocalypse and not Disney land.

[The13thRonin]

Originally Posted by Alkio

It wasnt a bad ending, u have to understand that this is the apocalypse and not Disney land.

People aren't upset about the quality of the ending. People are upset because you could be a terrible person who let Clementine eat human flesh, kills people infront of her, didn't feed her, lied to her and she still tearfully hugs you at the end while you die...

People are upset because you Kenny uncharacteristically commits suicide against a wave of zombies with one bullet flying in the face of everything that Kenny was built up to be from day one... A pragmatist... Someone who was willing to let a stranger get mauled by zombies in episode two so he could score an extra can of beans.

People are upset because even if you didn't steal from the car Clementine still gets kidnapped...

People are upset because even if the entire group gets left with the boat VERNON STILL MANAGES TO TAKE IT WITH A BUNCH OF TERMINALLY ILL PATIENTS in direct contradiction to his supposesedly helpful nature.

People are upset because their decisions didn't matter at all and Telltale misled us into thinking our decisions would have "lasting consequences". What lasting consequences? Was your ending any different to mine? No? Then where are the lasting consequences... I might as well have bought the comics... Nothing I did mattered at all. And that fact shattered the illusion at the end of the story that any of it mattered more than shooting a guy in an FPS only for him to respawn two seconds later.

Was it a bad game? No. Was it everything it could have been and suggested it would be? No? Should it be improved to be more open ended for season two? Yes.

[Alkio]

yeah i see ur point, i respect that but honestly most people on the internet are angry due to the fact that Lee doesn't make it through the end, this make me more mad because they already knew that Lee was already bitten in ep 4....

I know its annoying how your choices doesn't matter at the end but if you were to really be upset because of this then sorry, but in my opinion as long as Telltale deliver a solid story line then i wouldn't mind, my only small complaint was the same as yours, it wasn't open ended but I wouldn't blame for that because without them this thread wouldn't exist to begin with...

But let me wrap this up, I myself am not one to have high expectations and standards, and plus its a game, even movies and books can make mistakes so in the end i don't really care. I don't play a game to solely criticise and nit pick, i sit back, let my thoughts and emotions flow with the game and enjoy. But with that being said, have a nice day

[Edzix]

Originally Posted by Tienak

The problem with that is not all of us followed every single meeting because we didn't want to know anything about it, I know I certainly didn't. The game stated every single time I loaded up a chaptor that my choices tailor the story, that's what I see each time I play, nothing about some pretentious "Journey".
The next season has to be more clear on what we're getting ourselves in for, it's a great game there is no denying that but it was still very disapointing that for those of us who didn't watch interviews, got mislead.

Most of the cringy moments in the game came from the writer clearly wanting the player to do certain things, but us not doing it.
The main villan is proof of that, he was picking straws with reasons to hate my Lee, the fact they make him say "Yeah, well...you lead her to that canibal place! HA! GOT YOU!" was stupid as I had no power over that, I didn't have the option to tell Clementine to go back and I don't think Clementine would be the type to say "Oh, Lee didn't ASK me to go back..."
I can't remeber the others but to sum them up it was as if he was picking straws to hate Lee, he had no motives to work with because my choices had lead him to that.

It's coming up to Christmas and more importantly, the steam sales. They obviously rushed this game out to meet demands and for the most part they did a good job, if they had cut out the epilogue and just blacked out the screen when Lee died, that would've been fine.
I still think it's bad game design to give the player an option that means nothing, why chop off the arm if it does nothing? Why save ben if he dies anyway? Just feels pointless, sure, we get some extra dialogue but it mounts to nothing, it feels like it mounted to nothing.

Yeah I save Clementine but why was I asked over and over "Hey, do you want the invincible couple to take care of her?" only for the writer to go "No. MY STORY MY ENDING!" what was the point?
You can try and tell me this was for the journey but why would I take this journey again when the last time it lead to disapointment and frustration? Sure, it was a good game, it is an accomplishment in many many ways but this is the wrong way of ending such a great game, it deserves better.

yeah, I can agree with that.

[The13thRonin]

Originally Posted by Alkio

yeah i see ur point, i respect that but honestly most people on the internet are angry due to the fact that Lee doesn't make it through the end, this make me more mad because they already knew that Lee was already bitten in ep 4....

I know its annoying how your choices doesn't matter at the end but if you were to really be upset because of this then sorry, but in my opinion as long as Telltale deliver a solid story line then i wouldn't mind, my only small complaint was the same as yours, it wasn't open ended but I wouldn't blame for that because without them this thread wouldn't exist to begin with...

But let me wrap this up, I myself am not one to have high expectations and standards, and plus its a game, even movies and books can make mistakes so in the end i don't really care. I don't play a game to solely criticise and nit pick, i sit back, let my thoughts and emotions flow with the game and enjoy. But with that being said, have a nice day

I can respect that point of view and especially the eloquent and non-ranty way it was delivered.

I didn't have so much a problem with Lee dying. I suppose they needed to make room for a new protagonist in Season 2 and I can understand that.

I generally liked the ending minus some of the other charcters dying (which I thought was a bit too forced) and the fact that we got no proper epilogue on how Clementine turned out. I guess because she'll return for season 2 as well.

You have a nice day too .

[Hazevamp]

Originally Posted by Alkio

yeah i see ur point, i respect that but honestly most people on the internet are angry due to the fact that Lee doesn't make it through the end, this make me more mad because they already knew that Lee was already bitten in ep 4....

I think the biggest problem with having Lee die is when the writers give players a bogus opt out "choice" by having him get his arm cut off. I'm sure the creators thought they were trying to send some profound TWD message of no hope and everyone dies, and it was their way of giving some players hope only to dash them blah blah. But the message gets wasted when it becomes just one more thing the player had zero control over. If I had more control over the rest of the game's outcome and Lee STILL bites it even if you cut off his arm, then so be it but I just saw it as yet another reminder that the story really just is not tailored to my actions like I was told it would be. And just before Lee dies I'm given more reminders that my choices mean nothing with that ridiculous Kidnapper who brings up all the "choices" I've made throughout the game, only problem is, none of those choices were even mine and he just so happens to know about the "choices" made long before Lee encounters his car full of goods.

As for "everyone dies" on TWD. Does Rick die? I just want to know, I don't read the comics.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

They promised your choices would matter and drastically affect the ending of Mass Effect 3... it didn't.

They called Mass Effect 'hard sci-fi.'

The ending forces Shepard to act out of character and drastically alters established lore (in a bad way.)

Yeah, I'd say it's more than just Shepard dying.

Yeah, Bioware definitely dropped the ball on Mass Effect.....

[Dead Watcher]

Originally Posted by Eterna5

Look guys, I'm going to be blunt. If you came into this game expecting to find a sense of accomplishment from beating it, you were sorely mistaken. zif you even thought you'd get a bittersweet ending you were also mistaken.

I've read every Walking Dead comic, watched every show, and now played every game this series has to offer, I love it. And I feel as though this ending does the series and what it's trying to convey justice.

The television show, Comics and games may be different mediums, but they all have one thing in common: Everybody dies. No matter how attached you get to a character, no matter how significant you think they are to the plot, they will inevitably die. Clementine? She too will eventually bite the dust, hell it may even be in season two. No character is ever safe. So I'll say it again, everybody dies.

If you can't accept this fact, and if you can't accept the fact that this series will never, ever make you feel triumphant at the end, then the walking dead is not for you. Because this series bases itself around the concept of Death and loss.

So are wars, but people survive those too. Not everybody dies in this game: Molly, depending upon how your aim is, lives. Vernon and his group are assumed alive. Christa and Omid are alive. So there are some people who make it out.

[Nokturnal Lex]

Originally Posted by Eterna5

Oh God, this reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 forums.

"Shepurd didn't live and I am mad!1"

Please, don't become the BSN. Not everything ends happily.

It's not about happy endings. (well some people want them. Not me.)

For me I wouldn't mind if lee died in every single possible alternative ending. Cause that ending was pretty epic.

The thing I have a problem with is that the game marketed itself as not being linear and your choices mattered, but in reality, your choices didn't matter, same people left and died no matter what options you picked.

A game like this must have alternative endings otherwise what's the point of giving us options? Just make your own little Walking Dead series spin off web episodes if you want to just tell your own version of the story and give the players no meaningful choices.

The best example of this is when Lilly kills Carly/Doug. You're given like 12 dialogue options in a row with like 4 choices each. When there should've been just 1 dialogue option and 1 choice. "Who cares, you're going to kill him/her anyway."

[Nokturnal Lex]

Originally Posted by Hazevamp

As for "everyone dies" on TWD. Does Rick die? I just want to know, I don't read the comics..

Rick is still alive in the comics, the only way I could see them killing him off is if they wanted to end the series for good or have his son take over, but so far his kid is still a kid even if he is a very disturbed kid, so Rick's probably going to be around for awhile in the comics. (Unless they wanted to end it while he was still a kid and have time fast forward to when he's older)

[KingOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Hazevamp

As for "everyone dies" on TWD. Does Rick die? I just want to know, I don't read the comics.

yeah issue 300 which isnt out right now RK said rick already has a planned death