Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

[Evinshir]

Originally Posted by Saoralba131

Don't they have to make the ending & epilogue basically the same so when season 2 is released everyone will start at the same point?

Not necessarily. They can always start Season 2 at the same point with an explanation as to why Ben/Kenny/whoever survived is no longer with Clem.

Personally I feel the better approach would have been to end the story properly here and make Season 2 be a new story with new protagonists then have characters from season 1 make guest appearances.

While I love Clem, I kind of feel her story has been told. It will be interesting to see where they go next with it, but I would want more choice and consequence in season 2 before I'd be willing to put any money down.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by Saoralba131

Don't they have to make the ending & epilogue basically the same so when season 2 is released everyone will start at the same point?

No. They threw continuity out the window when they killed Lee. It'll more than likely be a new protagonist, possibly caring for Clem.

[ieatbrains]

Stop telling people what to like or not like. If they say the writing sucked or the choices are pointless. Then it sucked. This is a VENT thread after all. Not kiss TTG's butt. Geez!

[funyahns]

Originally Posted by ieatbrains

Stop telling people what to like or not like. If they say the writing sucked or the choices are pointless. Then it sucked. This is a VENT thread after all. Not kiss TTG's butt. Geez!

Open forum is it not? Allowed to disagree with each other, its okay.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by ieatbrains

Stop telling people what to like or not like. If they say the writing sucked or the choices are pointless. Then it sucked. This is a VENT thread after all. Not kiss TTG's butt. Geez!

I swear. I can see people disagreeing on the choices thing, but to deny this episode was poorly written is ludicrous. The dialogue between Clem and Lee is fantastic, but the entire "campman" thing is complete and utter bullshit.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by funyahns

Open forum is it not? Allowed to disagree with each other, its okay.

There's a difference between disagreeing and just blindly dickriding TellTale, like so many posters here are doing. Once the Fridge Logic hits them, they'll get what we're venting about.

[WoodMan]

Originally Posted by Gerudan

You still have to give the player the feeling of some kind of accomplishment. Now Lee has completely failed, he might as well shot himself in the head with the shotgun from the beginning, what difference would it make? Clem is all alone, hungry, thirsty and will probably die from exhaustion in the next couple of hours. We don't even know who the two silhouettes at the end were. There really is no excuse for such a stupid cliffhanger ending.

Oh look, we will make a second season, so you don't need an ending for the first one, because that is, how good writing works.

Actually Lee hasn't failed, not if Clem survives and goes on to do something important.

From the looks of the end, it seems you might be Clem in the second game (if there is one).

It is a standard feature of story structure that has been around for 1000s of years that the tutor *must* die or leave so that the person they were caring for can prove they are a hero themselves. If they never get to do that the tutor was a pointless character in the first place, because you never get to see what the person they were caring for actually learned.

So, if Clem is the main character that you control in the second game, Lee pretty much had to die or be removed from the story in some other way so that everything he did could be validated.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by WoodMan

Actually Lee hasn't failed, not if Clem survives and goes on to do something important.

From the looks of the end, it seems you might be Clem in the second game (if there is one).

It is a standard feature of story structure that has been around for 1000s of years that the tutor *must* die or leave so that the person they were caring for can prove they are a hero themselves. If they never get to do that the tutor was a pointless character in the first place, because you never get to see what the person they were caring for actually learned.

So, if Clem is the main character that you control in the second game, Lee pretty much had to die or be removed from the story in some other way so that everything he did could be validated.

The likelyhood of us playing as Clem is extremely slim. Yes, she might become a protagonist like Carl did in the comics, but again, it's unlikely. What made the game so appealing was the fact the player was protecting this little girl. It'd be a whole 'nother ballgame if we were forced to be her.

[Evinshir]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

I swear. I can see people disagreeing on the choices thing, but to deny this episode was poorly written is ludicrous. The dialogue between Clem and Lee is fantastic, but the entire "campman" thing is complete and utter bullshit.

I agree. While there are some rough bits, the overall writing is excellent and the final scenes with Clem and Lee were well written and acted.

My only complaint is that there was no variability in the finale. I would have preferred there being a chance for anyone to die or live based on how you had developed your relationships with them, each other and what choices you make in the final episode.

And I do think that cutting Lee's arm off should have had more influence on how things ultimately played out.

[WoodMan]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

The likelyhood of us playing as Clem is extremely slim. Yes, she might become a protagonist like Carl did in the comics, but again, it's unlikely. What made the game so appealing was the fact the player was protecting this little girl. It'd be a whole 'nother ballgame if we were forced to be her.

Yeah you could be right because she is still very young, would be an unusual protagonist, but it could be quite a different game, think no punching people and fighting off hordes with a meat cleaver stuff like Lee was doing but having to survive in other ways, it could be very interesting.

However, I was half expecting a scene at the end where you see a much older Clem, like 20 years old or something, only identifiable by her hat

That would have made a more likely Clem protagonist for a second game, and given the first game a happy ending because Lee's actions would have all been validated right there!

[Arkane]

My disappointment was the chart at the end telling me I did or didn't do stuff that I actually did.

[Doctanian]

TellTale should've dropped the whole walkie-talkie business. That ruined the story. It was absolutely masterful up until the end of episode 4. The whole tension between Lilly and Kenny, the struggle to survive and make tough choices on who gets to eat. Raiding places for supplies. Finding a boat. Taking shelter.

Then Clementine got kidnapped and Lee got bit. How conveniently doom and gloom.

Episode 3 should've erased the whole walkie-talkie concept and just stuck with the main message: survival. Maybe they should've ended the season with Clem finding her parents (in a more dramatic way, because episode 5's way was terrible) and have her kill them to defend Lee or something. Maybe Lee gets bit at the end of the season. I don't fucking know, all I know is the writers' efforts to make a effective villain failed and thus the entire plot fell to pieces before my eyes . The goal should've been just to survive with your group.

I was angry at campman, not for being a bad guy, but sucking so fucking hard at it. He's easily one of the lamest villains I've encountered in a game.

I need to stop thinking about episode 5, otherwise I'll hate the series. It's that bad to me.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by Arkane

My disappointment was the chart at the end telling me I did or didn't do stuff that I actually did.

You got that too? And in the game, Campman accused me of letting Clem eat human meat. I know for a fact I stopped her. What the fuck?

[funyahns]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

There's a difference between disagreeing and just blindly dickriding TellTale, like so many posters here are doing. Once the Fridge Logic hits them, they'll get what we're venting about.

I didn't care for the Campman thing really, didn't make any sense. But calling people dickriders and stuff is confrontational just because of disagreements. I wish some things had been done better. But overall I feel the game accomplished what it set out to do.

[HiggsBoson2142]

My problems

-Molly isn't even referenced
-No way to save Ben/Kenny
-Not everything is explained
-We of course are left with a cliffhanger instead of the two people being Omid and Christa

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by funyahns

I didn't care for the Campman thing really, didn't make any sense. But calling people dickriders and stuff is confrontational just because of disagreements. I wish some things had been done better. But overall I feel the game accomplished what it set out to do.

I'm not calling you a dickrider, I think I know why you liked it. But there have been people on these forums and others just blindly defending TellTale's poor storytelling. I'm sorry if you were offended. I love the game, I just hate this episode, lol.

[Arkane]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

You got that too? And in the game, Campman accused me of letting Clem eat human meat. I know for a fact I stopped her. What the fuck?

Huh , I forgot that quick how that part went. he just accused me of bringing her there in the first place. I''ll have to go back and see if he said that to me as well.

As far as the chart goes yeah it was a pain in the rear. It said I didn't defend Kenny and Duck in the store when I did. ( unless you HAVE to tell him to kick Larry's ass) and it said I didn't give Larry CPR when I did. I'm going to replay the game in its entirety, but man that was disappointing to see that part of the game messed up, telling me I did or didn't do things I did or did not do.

[Cerrano]

I'm okay that Lee died. I really enjoyed the race against his infection. I do wish there were ways to save Kenny and the others. I would have felt like Lee's sacrifice was worth it. Multiple endings would have been nice. Its kind of a bummer that no matter what choices you make the ending is essentially the same.

[DatDude]

Doctanian...believe it or not..some people are okay with the choices not meaning much in the end, and all those other flaws you consider flaws.

It's not dickriding..it's called having our OWN OPINION.

[samipod42]

Can everybody shut up about saying that the reason people hate the ending is because they're complaining about Lee dying?! I've seen this comment so many times but I'll say it again. It's because the CHOICES DIDN'T MATTER. I chopped off my arm. I fully accepted that Lee was going to die but I figured chopping off my arm could buy me some time and that might be exactly what I needed. What bothers me the most is the fact that what seemed to be the big choice of who comes with you and did you reveal the bite doesn't matter. The group finds out your bitten anyway and doesn't care and you go back to the mansion anyway and meet back with the group. I went with everyone and I thought that my adventure would be so much more intense than other people's, but it's exactly the same! I saved Ben's life, but his big "moment" was him standing up to Kenny. He still screwed up again in the end and got Kenny killed. Kenny's death in both situations felt forced. I hope he's still alive because it was ambiguous. Campan, or "The Man Who Masterminded the Game" was horribly disappointing. I always thought that decision was more of a moral dilemma to teach Clementine if stealing was wrong of if survival was more important. I didn't know it was the biggest decision in the game! Wait...No, it wasn't. He still kidnaps Clementine and hates Lee if you DON'T STEAL. I thought it was interesting how he chastised Lee for his bad decisions but you can tell they were really reaching for some of them. I thought most of my decisions were right and he said I was a bad guy because I brought Clementine to Crawford, I brought her to the dairy, and...that's it. I couldn't even decide one of those. The final episode should've been a big, "You brought these people. The story branches off this way and you get this moral dilemma instead of this one." I saw a guy on YouTube who does these playthroughs and I noticed before I played that this episode was only 9 parts, contrary to the other's 14 and 15 part lengths. I figured that was because of the massive replayability of this episode. Nope. The ONLY excuse for an ending as forced and as rushed as this is if we continue with this cast for season 2. I don't want that to happen but it's the only way. There should've been moments in this episode where if you made one decision, you wasted time, didn't get to Clementine, and see that she's already a walker. NOTHING in this episode changes. The only change that happens is if you save Ben or not and that's very minor. Believe it or not, I did like this episode. I just needed to vent. I thought the ending was very nice and heartbreaking but when the episode ended and the Walking Dead logo went up, I was taken aback. This episode was really short, as opposed to the much longer Around Every Corner, which had much more branching paths.