Why do people like Ben?

[Doctanian]

This list shows the victims Ben has killed:

Carley/Doug (Indirectly Caused)

As a result of Lilly's paranoia of the supply theft that Ben was responsible for, Carley/Doug was shot dead alongside the road during a heated argument.

Duck (Indirectly Caused)

Ben's supply theft ultimately resulted in the raid that caused Duck to get bitten by a walker.

Katjaa (Indirectly Caused)

Ben's supply theft ultimately resulted in the raid that caused Duck to get bitten by a walker. Unable to cope with losing her son, Katjaa committed suicide right in front of Kenny and Duck.

Charles (Indirectly Caused)

As of a result of Ben's cowardice, Ben abandons Clementine, forcing Lee and Charles/Chuck to come to her rescue. Charles/Chuck is then separated from the group by walkers and his remains are later found by Lee in the sewers of Savannah.

Molly (Possibly/Determinant/Indirectly Caused)

After he removes the hatchet from the door handles and walkers overrun the building, Molly can get left behind if the walker she's fighting isn't shot by Lee or Clementine. While it's possible she can be devoured by walkers, her true fate is unknown.

Kenny (Determinant/Indirectly Caused)

After breaking through the wall in the attic of the mansion, the group proceed to jump across a small balcony over an alley, it breaks as Ben tries to jump across, and falls. When Kenny and Lee go see what happened, Ben says he's okay, but when removing objects on top of him, it is revealed the balcony arm impaled Ben in the stomach. When walkers see the three of them, Kenny pushes Lee away into a gate to protect him, telling Lee to find Clementine. As walkers start to attack, Kenny uses his last bullet to put Ben out of his misery, and then get himself eaten alive as Lee watches.

At least two zombies (Determinant).

Not me, the wikia.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by Sutinen

I don't really hate people who don't intent to do anything bad. The only character I actually hated was the stalker. I wanted to slice him up before we even started talking.

He left Clementine to die. There is no fucking excusing that. A hobo who had only know her for two days gave his life for that little girl.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by rachellouise85

That also covers Ben . Ben is (was, boohoo)alive, nothing else matterss

It does, but you're missing the point.

[Viser]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

He left Clementine to die. There is no fucking excusing that. A hobo who had only know her for two days gave his life for that little girl.

While I do agree it's a dick move to leave a little girl behind, I do understand why that happened. Heck, I'd probably do the same and feel like a complete piece of shit for doing it. That's why I think I'm not really suited for a Z.A. . And since Ben is scared shitless of walkers (I'd be, too), he probably froze at the sight of them so damn close to him. I bet the only thing he could think of at that moment was "JUST FUCKING RUN FOR YOUR LIFE DUDE!!!" and that's what he did. What I find interesting is that he had a gun in his hand and he didn't use it. It's funny how Ben never uses a gun, he doesn't even try to shoot

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by Viser

While I do agree it's a dick move to leave a little girl behind, I do understand why that happened. Heck, I'd probably do the same and feel like a complete piece of shit for doing it. That's why I think I'm not really suited for a Z.A. . And since Ben is scared shitless of walkers (I'd be, too), he probably froze at the sight of them so damn close to him. I bet the only thing he could think of at that moment was "JUST FUCKING RUN FOR YOUR LIFE DUDE!!!" and that's what he did. What I find interesting is that he had a gun in his hand and he didn't use it. It's funny how Ben never uses a gun, he doesn't even try to shoot

He didn't show the faintest signs of remorse. He said a "yeah, I know" as a cheap apology. If he really cared and felt that bad, he would've kept an eye on Clementine later in Episode 4 and he couldn't even do that.

I don't think I could run away from a little kid. I'd feel suicidal after that. Imagine if it was any other character that did that, the hate would be astonishing, but because it's Ben, he gets a pass.

Then he has the audacity to claim he had a little sister and never got to see them before the outbreak. Yet, you leave a little girl who's old enough to be your sister and treats you like an older brother out to die. And later, you let her wander OUT OF THE MANSION AND ONTO THE STREETS.

[TheNNerdGamer]

has anyone even noticed what he said:
"FUCK YOU KENNY"
"I am so,so,SO sorry about katjaa and duck, I AM. and I know i fucked up, BUT stop pushing me around and STOP wishing I was dead.

"NO!,you know how they died, you've said GOODBYE, I never got to see my family, my little sister...do you get that?your family is gone but at least you had them to lose."

"I never made it home. They could be alive or dead or walkers or WORSE and I don't know. SO GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!"

[anonymau5]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

He didn't show the faintest signs of remorse. He said a "yeah, I know" as a cheap apology. If he really cared and felt that bad, he would've kept an eye on Clementine later in Episode 4 and he couldn't even do that.

I don't think I could run away from a little kid. I'd feel suicidal after that. Imagine if it was any other character that did that, the hate would be astonishing, but because it's Ben, he gets a pass.

Then he has the audacity to claim he had a little sister and never got to see them before the outbreak. Yet, you leave a little girl who's old enough to be your sister and treats you like an older brother out to die. And later, you let her wander OUT OF THE MANSION AND ONTO THE STREETS.

Now, hold on. He ran away because he wasn't thinking. He obviously did care. I suppose you were never a teenager yourself. Ben did keep an eye on Clem, until a wounded man needed help. Ben wasn't justified in leaving Clem, but he was justified in helping a man who couldn't WALK ON HIS OWN.

[Viser]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

He didn't show the faintest signs of remorse. He said a "yeah, I know" as a cheap apology. If he really cared and felt that bad, he would've kept an eye on Clementine later in Episode 4 and he couldn't even do that.

He did show remorse, look at the face he makes just before he runs off. He knows he is too scared to do anything but run, and he feels remorse before even doing it.

I don't think I could run away from a little kid. I'd feel suicidal after that. Imagine if it was any other character that did that, the hate would be astonishing, but because it's Ben, he gets a pass.

And didn't he feel suicidal? That plus all the other times he messed up are the reasons why he wanted Lee to drop him from that bell tower. And he doesn't really 'get a pass', just my understanding, because to me he is the only character who can't really cope with the whole "apocalypse" and "not being safe" thing, and I wouldn't either, which is why I understand him.

Then he has the audacity to claim he had a little sister and never got to see them before the outbreak. Yet, you leave a little girl who's old enough to be your sister and treats you like an older brother out to die. And later, you let her wander OUT OF THE MANSION AND ONTO THE STREETS.

Well, I don't really know what to say about this... like I said before, I do understand why he did that, although that's incredibly cowardly.

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

This list shows the victims Ben has killed:

Carley/Doug (Indirectly Caused)

As a result of Lilly's paranoia of the supply theft that Ben was responsible for, Carley/Doug was shot dead alongside the road during a heated argument.

Duck (Indirectly Caused)

Ben's supply theft ultimately resulted in the raid that caused Duck to get bitten by a walker.

Katjaa (Indirectly Caused)

Ben's supply theft ultimately resulted in the raid that caused Duck to get bitten by a walker. Unable to cope with losing her son, Katjaa committed suicide right in front of Kenny and Duck.

Charles (Indirectly Caused)

As of a result of Ben's cowardice, Ben abandons Clementine, forcing Lee and Charles/Chuck to come to her rescue. Charles/Chuck is then separated from the group by walkers and his remains are later found by Lee in the sewers of Savannah.

Molly (Possibly/Determinant/Indirectly Caused)

After he removes the hatchet from the door handles and walkers overrun the building, Molly can get left behind if the walker she's fighting isn't shot by Lee or Clementine. While it's possible she can be devoured by walkers, her true fate is unknown.

Kenny (Determinant/Indirectly Caused)

After breaking through the wall in the attic of the mansion, the group proceed to jump across a small balcony over an alley, it breaks as Ben tries to jump across, and falls. When Kenny and Lee go see what happened, Ben says he's okay, but when removing objects on top of him, it is revealed the balcony arm impaled Ben in the stomach. When walkers see the three of them, Kenny pushes Lee away into a gate to protect him, telling Lee to find Clementine. As walkers start to attack, Kenny uses his last bullet to put Ben out of his misery, and then get himself eaten alive as Lee watches.

At least two zombies (Determinant).

Not me, the wikia.

What about Brie? And goddamn, this kid doesn't get his hands dirty. Every one of those has been "Indirectly caused"

[dylanevans12]

The whole "it was indirectly caused" as a defence is bullshit in my eyes, if i gave an absolute crazy guy a gun, and he went on to shoot a shit load of people, i would be to blame just as much as the crazy guy, so ben is just as much to blame as the zombies for biting duck/molly/chuck. he's just a walking liability

[darknessofheart]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

Ben wasn't treated like a kid. He was given pretty mature tasks, but because he botched them and was demoted to babysitting duty and he fucked that up. He was never treated like a kid, otherwise, Kenny, Lilly, and Lee wouldn't have wanted to kill him.

I've seen no evidence of him being given mature tasks prior to him having to look after Clem. He was on watch in episode 3 and Kenny thought that was a mistake in itself. There is no evidence that he was properly trained with guns despite holding one; he claims to not be good with them. He was then told to look after Clem, but aside from that, he is always told to stay behind.

When on the subject of Ben, many comment that he's still just a kid such as Lee ("he's still just a kid, it's easy to forget that"), Chuck ("three adults taking care of three kids"), Kenny ("looks like we got the kid on watch again"). I see no indication that anyone saw Ben as anything more than that. I understand why people hate Ben, but I can see why he panics so much when he does not have anything backing him up like proper training, encouragement, and gradual exposure to this horrible world to help build up his character. Some people just freeze when death is staring them in the face and do incredibly stupid things on impulse; easy to judge, but when in such situations, it's easy to panic when you have no prior experience handling such affairs except for running.

[CarScar]

I liked Ben because he's probably the most realistic character in the game. Ben is how most teenagers would react in a zombie apocalypse. All he wanted to do was help but because of it he kept hurting people, even the ones he cared about (e.g. Carley, Doug, Katjaa, Duck, Kenny, nearly Clementine). During the bell tower scene I think he wanted Lee to drop him simply because he didn't want to hurt anyone else with his actions.

I'm also under the belief that humanity > survival.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by darknessofheart

I've seen no evidence of him being given mature tasks prior to him having to look after Clem. He was on watch in episode 3 and Kenny thought that was a mistake in itself. There is no evidence that he was properly trained with guns despite holding one; he claims to not be good with them. He was then told to look after Clem, but aside from that, he is always told to stay behind.

When on the subject of Ben, many comment that he's still just a kid such as Lee ("he's still just a kid, it's easy to forget that"), Chuck ("three adults taking care of three kids"), Kenny ("looks like we got the kid on watch again"). I see no indication that anyone saw Ben as anything more than that.

1. They put Ben on watch.
2. Lee tells Ben to watch Lilly with a gun. Lee says Lilly keeps everyone on a training schedule, so I'm assuming Ben got some rifle training at least.
3. Ben's biggest time to prove himself was when Lee told him to help Clementine.
4. He had to guard the motel with Carley or Doug. Think about that. He's left at the motel which was being attacked by bandits (before he made the deal) with only Carley or Doug. Carley's a crack shot, but c'mon.

Chuck then turns around and says age doesn't matter. Lee agrees. Kenny obviously didn't care because he wanted to kill Ben. So all recanted their statements in a way. Again. Lee, Lilly, and Kenny all wanted to kill Ben. How do they see him as a kid?

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by CarScar

I liked Ben because he's probably the most realistic character in the game. Ben is how most teenagers would react in a zombie apocalypse. All he wanted to do was help but because of it he kept hurting people, even the ones he cared about (e.g. Carley, Doug, Katjaa, Duck, Kenny, nearly Clementine). During the bell tower scene I think he wanted Lee to drop him simply because he didn't want to hurt anyone else with his actions.

I'm also under the belief that humanity > survival.

If it's not about survival, but humanity then why did he leave a little girl to be mauled by zombies? Even if he ran and then came back to make up for it, I would've forgiven him, but c'mon man. If you seriously think most teenagers would behave like Ben, then you've just insulted an entire generation.

[TheNNerdGamer]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

If it's not about survival, but humanity then why did he leave a little girl to be mauled by zombies? Even if he ran and then came back to make up for it, I would've forgiven him, but c'mon man. If you seriously think most teenagers would behave like Ben, then you've just insulted an entire generation.

some would act like that (somewhat a 32% of teens would act like that)

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by anonymau5

Now, hold on. He ran away because he wasn't thinking. He obviously did care. I suppose you were never a teenager yourself. Ben did keep an eye on Clem, until a wounded man needed help. Ben wasn't justified in leaving Clem, but he was justified in helping a man who couldn't WALK ON HIS OWN.

He ran to save himself, showing us he cared more about his own life than he did a 9 year old girl's. Period.

He could've told Clem to come upstairs with him. He could've made her. If he can't handle a 9 year old, then why the fuck would he assist with a wounded man?

[CarScar]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

If it's not about survival, but humanity then why did he leave a little girl to be mauled by zombies? Even if he ran and then came back to make up for it, I would've forgiven him, but c'mon man. If you seriously think most teenagers would behave like Ben, then you've just insulted an entire generation.

I didn't mean in regards with Ben, all he wants to do is make sure he doesn't become a walker (it's implied that's his biggest fear). I'm talking in regards with Lee, my Lee believes in humanity over survival and if I dropped Ben I would have been no different than Crawford.

Do you honestly believe teenagers would act heroic in a zombie apocalypse? Especially one that is in a band class. I'm willing to bet almost all teenagers would act like sniveling children, only exceptions are the ones that have parents like Rick Grimes.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by CarScar

I didn't mean in regards with Ben, all he wants to do is make sure he doesn't become a walker (it's implied that's his biggest fear). I'm talking in regards with Lee, my Lee believes in humanity over survival and if I dropped Ben I would have been no different than Crawford.

Do you honestly believe teenagers would act heroic in a zombie apocalypse? Especially one that is in a band class. I'm willing to bet almost all teenagers would act like sniveling children, only exceptions are the ones that have parents like Rick Grimes.

Sorry, I misread that.

No, I don't. However, most cowards probably would die early on. Bravery is pretty much required in TWD. You're dead without it. Ben lived as long as he did because of the bravery of Carley and Doug. Because of Lee's bravery. Because of Clem's bravery. Because of Kenny's bravery. You'd think some of that courage would rub off.

Look around the globe, kids show examples of bravery every day. American and many First World teenagers are sheltered, but give them the benefit of the doubt.

[darknessofheart]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

1. They put Ben on watch.
2. Lee tells Ben to watch Lilly with a gun. Lee says Lilly keeps everyone on a training schedule, so I'm assuming Ben got some rifle training at least.
3. Ben's biggest time to prove himself was when Lee told him to help Clementine.
4. He had to guard the motel with Carley or Doug. Think about that. He's left at the motel which was being attacked by bandits (before he made the deal) with only Carley or Doug. Carley's a crack shot, but c'mon.

Chuck then turns around and says age doesn't matter. Lee agrees. Kenny obviously didn't care because he wanted to kill Ben. So all recanted their statements in a way. Again. Lee, Lilly, and Kenny all wanted to kill Ben. How do they see him as a kid?

Again, to Chuck age doesn't matter, but they will still be seen as one if that's how they are treated. I'm a little confused as to how Lilly and Kenny wanting to kill Ben has anything to do with thinking he isn't a kid. They were pissed at him and wanted him dead because he messed up badly; Ben isn't a child, but he is still not old enough to be an adult and is still not treated as such either. You said that Ben being young doesn't matter because age doesn't matter, and while I agreed with that, it still matters if they aren't treated as adults.

He was left in charge of the motel by a grieving woman (who later claims she's never trusted him during the argument on the road, so why she even let him is beyond me) while Kenny thinks it was a horrible idea to put him on watch. He was definitely not going to be trusted with guarding the Motel unless Carley was with him and having him hold up a gun towards a tied up woman with Lee a few feet away may have been the first rays of trust.

Again though, Ben is not comfortable with guns and wasn't properly trained to use them (unless there is a specific line that Lilly trained Ben, I don't think he was because there is obviously no evidence of it when he uses them) and has been rather sheltered from embarking on dangerous situations. To me, that explains why he did stupid things, not out of spite or malice, and why I don't mind the kid. Had Lee did training sessions with Ben, got him familiar with guns and how to aim, briefed him on supply runs and how to stay calm, and have others work with him, Ben would've been much more useful. As it is, he had no courage or self confidence and simply did not know how to handle himself.

Some people have it built into their character, but Ben didn't. I understand why people hate him and how cutting him loose might even be the smart, if inhumane, thing to do. I didn't want to leave him behind and thought the core of his character wasn't spiteful or malicious, but just a normal person thrown into this without any grasp on how to save others. Threatening a person to step up can only go so far, they need to be familiar with weapons to have the confidence to protect themselves and others.

People can blame Ben all they want about all these deaths, but at the end of the day, Lilly was crazed and killed Carley herself, Katjaa made the decision to take her own life, and who knows what the bandits would've done if they didn't make that deal.

[DreadMagus]

I'm not going to bother to quote.....

MOLLY IS NOT DEAD... sheesh.