Something I don't understand.

[Tazzle27]

So originally, they were going to make you play as Clementine's brother. but the idea was scrapped because they didn't like the idea of having a pre-existing relationship with Clementine, alright fair enough. So the only change necessary was to make a young adult or late teen(Between the age of 17-20) to bump into Clementine, that would've fixed the whole " pre-existing relationship thing " and as the game went along they could have developed a brother and sister type relationship. Right?

But they didn't do it that way, it would have made the most sense, so instead, they made alot of changes..without any explanation.

They changed the relationship from a brother figure to a father figure
They changed the main character to African American
They changed Clementine's ethnicity from Caucasian to African American(So people would think she is Lee's daugther)
They changed it so Clementine has a mother and a father. Originally, Clementine didn't have a father.

Is it explained anywhere why all these changes were made? honestly, I know I am one of the very few people to say this, but I would have preferred to play as a brotherly figure. At least Clementine would have felt more like a companion and somebody I am just looking out for than playing daddy. It wouldnt have felt like a daddy simulator.

Not to mention that this has been done SO MANY TIMES in other games already. Hell, Dead Rising 2 had a similar setting where I had to take care of a little girl.

So yeah, does anybody have any input on this?

[aerial-ballet]

No one would know for sure except Telltale, but my guess would be it was because a parent/child bond is usually stronger than a bond between siblings. It makes the whole subplot about teaching her how to take care of herself a little more meaningful, and it also makes for a stronger sense of loss.

Keep in mind that all of this can definitely apply to a sibling relationship. I've always been very close with my sister in real life, and would defend/protect her no matter what. But as far as narratives go, I think the guardian relationship feels more natural. I think players instinctively feel a greater sense of responsibility and urgency when dealing with Clem.

I don't discredit the sibling idea, though. Brothers and sisters do a hell of a lot of quarreling, which could make for some great dialog options!

Hell, maybe TTG will use it in Season 2. You never know.

[Tazzle27]

""Hell, maybe TTG will use it in Season 2. You never know.""

Sigh, but it won't feel as special because she already had that special bond with Lee and Clementine won't be the same after what she went through in season 1

[GREYxDUZxKRUSH]

I think the father type relationship is a good because lee has no children so its uncharted for him. Some of the best things was in E1 lee didnt even know how to talk to clem. Lee"Do you need to go to the bathroom or somthing like that" as he scratches his head. I thought thats great a 37 year old man who hasnt had been around kids is thrown into ZA oh and by the way heres an 8 year old girl to protect and care for with your life. Have fun. Great story telling if you ask me.

[aerial-ballet]

Originally Posted by Tazzle27

""Hell, maybe TTG will use it in Season 2. You never know.""

Sigh, but it won't feel as special because she already had that special bond with Lee and Clementine won't be the same after what she went through in season 1

Oh, I actually meant a new set of characters that happened to be brother and sister, with one of them being the PC.

I can't imagine what Clementine will be like in Season 2. It'd be great if she still had her hope and optimism.

Also, I agree with GREYxDUZxKRUSH. The fact that Lee had no children of his own is yet another strong point of the father/daughter relationship. It made the whole situation very interesting!

Great storytelling indeed.

[Tazzle27]

They could have at least made it so Clementine didn't have a father to begin with. Lee was nothing but a 2nd father to Clementine. I think it would have been more touching if she always wanted a father and she gained one through Lee. Thing is though, she already had a father figure! At least with the brother figure, she never had a brother to begin with, so imo, would have made it more special. But that is just me.

[Sutinen]

I don't think I could imagine this game without a black main character. Dave Fennoy is just too good. And just to add, Macon has lots of African-Americans. The comics already have a white main character, so creating another white guy as a main character on this region would be slightly racist. You know, "white man rules" or something like that.
And I'm not trying to be racist myself, I love all the races.

[BlackBoxx]

Originally Posted by Tazzle27

They could have at least made it so Clementine didn't have a father to begin with. Lee was nothing but a 2nd father to Clementine. I think it would have been more touching if she always wanted a father and she gained one through Lee. Thing is though, she already had a father figure! At least with the brother figure, she never had a brother to begin with, so imo, would have made it more special. But that is just me.

If Clem never had a father, it would just feel like she was projecting on Lee. While that could be made an interesting characteristic for her, I don't think that's what TTG was going for. Clem is an ordinary girl, albeit a bit peculiar with her preference for going outside over staying in and vegging out in front of the tv. Piling on a... I don't know what to call it... emotional baggage I guess, would lessen that I feel.

Besides, what's wrong with changing some details of a story before it hits the limelight? I do it all the time with story characters I create. Character A may be from this part of the world, so they should actually have this characteristic as it would make life there easier, or be an effect of living there. Character B may just be boring, so I try adding some things to him/her just to see if I like what they become. Stuff like that.

[ZeroShoot]

Yeah it has been done before, but this game was the first to make it right, they made people care for the character of Clementine, so that playing daddy wasn't annoying, in other games you bump into stupid, not really likeable characters, who you then don't want to, but have to protect, and the best example for that is Ashley from Resident Evil 4... Yeah it is no original idea/setting, nonetheless it works just fine. I prefer the father figure role over the brother figure role.

Episode one would have been completely different if you were her brother, because then, those "getting to know each other" elements would be completely missing, and I enjoyed them really much, furthermore the very beginning would have been different too, Lee (if that were still his name...) would not have been a convicted killer, which also takes many scenes from the game, and his life would have been less shitty before the apocalypse, the one special thing about Lee Everett is, that his life was pretty much screwed at the point the game started, he was going to jail and more important, he had no one to care for well, maybe his brother and parents, but I mean no family of his own, and the apocalypse gave him a family.

[Tazzle27]

""Yeah it has been done before""

Many times

""but this game was the first to make it right, they made people care for the character of Clementine, so that playing daddy wasn't annoying, in other games you bump into stupid, not really likeable characters, who you then don't want to, but have to protect, and the best example for that is Ashley from Resident Evil 4... Yeah it is no original idea/setting, nonetheless it works just fine. I prefer the father figure role over the brother figure role""

Clementine isn't annoying, I'll give you that. but honestly, you are still forced to take care of Clementine and be daddy. The game doesn't give you the option to just abandon her at her house. immediately Lee is like " i'll look after you from now on" So what if I didn't like Clementine? I'm pretty much in the same scenario as Leon In Resident Evil 4.

""Episode one would have been completely different if you were her brother, because then, those "getting to know each other" elements would be completely missing, and I enjoyed them really much""

Erm, why would those sequences be missing? What an odd thing to say

""furthermore the very beginning would have been different too, Lee (if that were still his name...) would not have been a convicted killer, which also takes many scenes from the game, and his life would have been less shitty before the apocalypse, the one special thing about Lee Everett is, that his life was pretty much screwed at the point the game started, he was going to jail and more important, he had no one to care for well, maybe his brother and parents, but I mean no family of his own, and the apocalypse gave him a family""

The problem with his backstory is that it just made it so obvious that he was going to die. So its another one of those games where the main protagonist "has been given a chance for redemption"

[ZeroShoot]

Originally Posted by Tazzle27

Erm, why would those sequences be missing? What an odd thing to say

No, because if we were her actual brother, as it originally was planned, then we would already know her..., so... no getting to know sequences.

Well yeah, I get what you are saying too, if the player doesn't like Clementine, which is very hard to imagine, but there are some people, they would have the feeling of being forced to take care of her, this is a point I like to criticize too, I guess it would have been too much work to give you the option of abandoning her, though it would have been great, because imagine:

Choice 1: Take her with you -> same story as we know it -> getting bit (because of her) -> Good guy dies.

Choice 2: Abandon defensless girl -> different story -> not getting bit -> bad, hardass survivor lives.

I would have liked that choice, even though I still would have taken her with me...

[Tazzle27]

""No, because if we were her actual brother, as it originally was planned, then we would already know her..., so... no getting to know sequences""

No, I meant a young adult bumping into Clementine and becoming her brother figure

[ZeroShoot]

Originally Posted by Tazzle27

""No, because if we were her actual brother, as it originally was planned, then we would already know her..., so... no getting to know sequences""

No, I meant a young adult bumping into Clementine and becoming her brother figure

Oh, then at least those parts would have been different, but maybe just as interesting, I guess we won't find out.

[Mark$man]

I'd rather her have a little/older sister figure :P for next season of course

[Mikejames]

Whether or not it's been done before, I've never seen a familial relationship work this well in a game. Lee may have needed to help Clem due to her age, but the reliability and trust they had worked mutually.

A brother/sister dynamic could have been interesting, but it was Telltale's narrative choice, and I think they executed it wonderfully. Either way, there will likely be new types of relationships to build off of come season 2.

[Tazzle27]

""Whether or not it's been done before, I've never seen a familial relationship work this well in a game""

I've seen it work well in other games as well, so this doesn't stand out for me.

"A brother/sister dynamic could have been interesting"

I think the results would have been better imo

but....

American culture Idolizes the Father figure saving the little girl, most people aren't able to grip the story with the brother figure saving his little sister instead of father figure I guess >.<

Aw well, maybe someday, maybe.

"will likely be new types of relationships to build off of come season 2."

It would have to be with a new character though, There is no way Clementine will have a close bond with anybody else, it would be unrealistic. After what she went through. There is just no way.

[Toasty]

Originally Posted by Tazzle27

Not to mention that this has been done SO MANY TIMES in other games already. Hell, Dead Rising 2 had a similar setting where I had to take care of a little girl.

I am a HUGE Dead Rising fan, and you're sort of wrong with this. Although you sort of do have to take care of a little girl, she is in the Safe Room the whole time. Basically out of the way of danger. We knew she was safe from being bitten. The character is set, and all you do is give her Zombrex every 24 hours pretty much.

However, The Walking Dead game is basically taking care of a little girl, where she has the chance of being bitten everywhere you go. Dead Rising 2 didn't have that. You get more attached to this character, because every desicion you make, basically decides the fate of you two. You're really trying hard to be the person to set her emotions the way they should be in dire times, and you're trying hard to be the best father figure you can. Throughout the game, Clementine basically says things that will affect your overall desicions throughout the game. This is a more of decide the path you want Clementine to experience.

Dead Rising is just survive, kill psychopaths, and save survivors.

[Mikejames]

It's your personal preference to feel that you would like a different style of story, but I'm not sure why someone would say that the this specific narrative had less weight based only on the assumption that a different type of family focus would have been better.
It's like criticizing Macbeth for not having Duncan actually be Macbeth's father to add to his moral dilemma, when that's just not the direction that Shakespeare took with it.

Originally Posted by Tazzle27

I've seen it work well in other games as well, so this doesn't stand out for me.

Can you name a few examples? I'm curious.
I mean, I loved Shattered Memories with Harry Mason desperately looking for his daughter, and Bioshock and its theme of rescuing young inflicted kids, but, like Toasty said with Dead Rising 2, none of the bonds between these people were developed like Clem and Lee's was.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by Tazzle27

""No, because if we were her actual brother, as it originally was planned, then we would already know her..., so... no getting to know sequences""

No, I meant a young adult bumping into Clementine and becoming her brother figure

Because kids suck as main characters in survival drama - unless all of the characters are under-aged.

No adult, let alone group of adults, is going to take the lead of a kid - not when survival is at stake.

Except maybe in JRPGs and the like... which thankfully this isn't.

[double_u]

Originally Posted by Mikejames

I mean, I loved Shattered Memories with Harry Mason desperately looking for his daughter, and Bioshock and its theme of rescuing young inflicted kids, but, like Toasty said with Dead Rising 2, none of the bonds between these people were developed like Clem and Lee's was.

Speaking of BioShock, recently been playing the first one since Infinity is on its way out, and I no longer have the heart to harvest Little Sisters for ADAM! It makes me think too much of Clementine! Damn you TTG for giving me a heart!