Telltale Games

pippilina · 11/05/2006, 07:13 am

I just bought Culture Shock & installed it, and didn't notice any activation activity or have to type in any authentification key. From my POV it looks like there isn't any kind of copy protection going on.

What exactly is going on with the copy protection? How's it work?

What a delicious little game, I can't wait for the next episode.

Maratanos · 11/05/2006, 10:26 am

No, you see, that's probably because you downloaded it via a secure connection WHEN you bought it. If you'd just downloaded the demo, then activated it (making it the full game), well, then, you know.

pippilina · 11/05/2006, 11:24 am

I see.. so then a copy purchased over a secure connection could be installed on someone else's machine without any kind of activation or serial number? Isn't that risky?

Don't worry, I'm not out to pirate anything, I'm just curious to know how this works.

Maratanos · 11/05/2006, 11:36 am

Hmmmm, my guess is that they have some sort of system in place to prevent that, but I couldn't tell you off hand what it was.

Alucard · 11/05/2006, 08:39 pm

I think that there is too much time and money wasted on copy protection. Pretty much every method of protection can be thwarted and even worse is the fact that some protections can screw with your system. (starforce anyone?)
There are some games today that don't have any protection but still sell well. It's like dvd's. People can easily download any dvd and even print their own cover and make it look almost exactly like a real one but many people still want the real one for their collection. Gifts are a big thing too if you buy gifts for people then you don't want to give them a copy of something because that would "cheapen" the whole thing.
My reason for buying games is a bit different. It is my industry and I'm not about to shoot myself in the foot by cheating companies I want a job from.

thom_h · 11/13/2006, 08:13 am

I've heard of games companies like E.A using ways to make the game 'unplayable' if the copy protection is cracked (On a cracked version of Godfather, the cars wouldn't work. etc)
Maybe that could be done, I guess.
At only 8 dollars a game though, I can't see why anybody would be so cheap to steal it!

Emily · 11/13/2006, 09:20 am

Our games are protected by an activation system that's linked to your order. When you download using the button at the end of the checkout process, the game activates automatically. This is not a link that can be easily passed around because it only shows up at the end of your checkout process. When it works the way it's supposed to, activation is seamless and you don't even notice it. That's how it should be!

In some situations you need to enter an activation key, which is a little bit of a hassle but we try to make it as easy as possible, without compromising the security of the game.

Quote:

At only 8 dollars a game though, I can't see why anybody would be so cheap to steal it!

You and me both.

Dreamkin · 11/25/2006, 06:03 am

I really think Stardock has the right idea about copy protection.

To tell you the truth there is really nothing and absolutely nothing you can do against software piracy. Trust me, I know what I am talking about. I live in a city where until recently it was next to impossible to find and buy an original game even if you wanted. And right now you can find most games for the meager price of $150. So it is a heaven for piracy since I was a little kid.

And really. It doesn't work. Whatever copy protection issue software companies think about there is a always a piracy solution.

I am not defending piracy.. I am just saying that companies should do two things to lessen it.

1)Focus on digital distribution:
A lot of people buy/get pirated games simply because they don't have the option of getting it in its original form. Digital distribution eliminates this. It is a viable form of international distribution which defeats any problems about stocks, importing issues, customs taxes and all those other things.

2)Do not spend money on copy protection. Really. Instead spend that money on making the game better. The money spent on copy protection really does not return to you.

No one would buy a game because it has copy protection. They would just wait for that protection to be cracked. Simple as that. People who BUY games are the kind of people who would buy the game anyway. And people who DON'T buy games are the kind of guys who would not buy a game just because it is copy protected. They are the kind of guys who would wait for the game to be cracked.

Kunkku-Antti · 11/28/2006, 07:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily

Which would you prefer, free (online) activation whenever you want it, or a $10 fee for a replacement disk (even if the disk is faulty out of the box)?

Hey! Everyone should check out if their country has some sort of legislation protecting the customer! I don´t know about USA, but for an example in Finland that kind of shit (faulty disk out of the box) is not acceptable and it has to be replaced for free. So, you´d better check that shit out before paying anything.

Roft · 12/09/2006, 02:03 am

I just purchased Sam & Max. Your copy protection confuses me. Will I be able to play this on more than 1 of my personal computers? I had planned to play this at home and on my Laptop when traveling.

Also, is the activation ticket based? Will it time out after a period of not having net access? I go out to sea and loose stable net access for long periods.

I'd have preferred the copy protection be spelled out clearly in black and white before purchasing. Though I am not entirely a close reader, I'd say that there wasn't anything to suggest that there was copy protection in place on this game.

Is your system closer to Steam? Steam is the only form of DRM/Copy protection I trust thus far. Starforce, and those like it, have forever put a bad taste in my mouth.

**Jake** · 12/09/2006, 08:12 am

Once it's unlocked on your machine it's unlocked regardless of whether or not you have an Internet connection - it only phones in to check your activation key the first time you play. You can unlock it on up to five machines before the game will start complaining that you've used your maximum registrations, at which point, if need be, you can write us and we can reset your key.

This isn't the most elegant solution, and we're looking into better things, including going with serial numbers or even a system more akin to Steam, but for right now we have what we have, and it's working for the large majority of our customers. Fortunately, as I've said elsewhere, Telltale is staffed entirely by human beings who do in fact care that our customers get a good experience out of our games (versus many companies whose customer support staffs seem to be employed solely by form letters), so if you do at any time find yourself in the small group who does run into problems with our activation system, you'll be assisted by a real person who has a strong interest in seeing you happily playing the game ASAP.

As for putting clarification about the game's copy protection on the checkout page, that's a good suggestion. I'll pass the idea around and see.

Roft · 12/09/2006, 08:44 am

Thanks for the reply and the info. ^ ~

After poking around the forums for a bit, I've seen behavior from the Teltale staff that is extremely conducive to keeping customers.

I think you'd find if you explained your copy protection some what similarly to how you did to me, simple and sweet, that you may get a few more of those people that are sitting on the edge. I was a tad reluctant at first due to not entirely understanding how it all worked in the end. But then the kid in me could not resist Sam & Max. Glad I took the dive! (got all 6 chapters and anxiously anticipating each and every release).

Roft
A very happy customer!

UK_John · 01/06/2007, 01:56 pm

I think gamers are getting the wool pulled over their eyes. Just because there is no on-disk protection the fact you have to register onto a site with a serial number to get the copious number of updates and 'improvements' is DRM! Just as all the complaints about HL2 and Steam are the same. 'I don't own the game, I can't sell it, or buy it second-hand, I am still dealing with a company that will say to me when I have bought what I believe to be a genuine game 'sorry, but that serial number exists, please BUY a new serial'!

Assuming Stardock sells 100,000 copies of this game, in 18-24 months, 75,000 will be floating out there on ebay or in bargain bins or at boot sales and 100 other types of places, and people that don;t know about the Stardock DRM method will load up the game, look for updates, find out they have to jump through a few hoops, download a couple of programs only to then find the site telling them 'that serial number exists....'. As it currently stands, if a gamer dies and his estate is put up for sale, everything potentially will be re-usable except for the Gal Civ II game! To me that means I never truly own the game, because I cannot give it away. That's exactly why people complained about Steam and HL2 and that's exactly what I call DRM.

But, the marketing is working. Because Starforce is so disliked (partly for being Russian and partly for stopping the pirates), Stardock is being pronounced as 'the saviour of gaming' with most gamers quite happy to say that because there is 'no DRM' he will buy the game!

How about going back to the days where games had real content and real manuals? Where the protection was made sensible, like codes to get into doors or weapon recognition from a long list of weapon graphics in the back of the manual?

Producing bland games with bland stories and bland pdf manuals is only making it easier for pirates, because we no longer have the love of the 'package' like we did with the Infocom games, or the Microprose games or Origin games with their 100 page plus fun, informative manuals, made out to be training manuals or top secret files or 1,000 year old magician books, including fold out maps, or cloth maps, or tech tree maps or keyboard overlays. Back then Pc gaming was a hobby. Now it's just throw away entertainment. this helps pirates and as I say will lead to 75,000 useless used copies of Galactic Civilizations II waiting for unsuspecting buyers..... Short term gain for Stardock, long term loss for gamers, especially mainstream gamers not clued in about Stardocks 'non DRM' that is DRM by any other name......

Alucard · 01/08/2007, 07:32 pm

I've never even heard of stardocks before? Is this some sort of new game? =P

AstareGod · 01/08/2007, 09:11 pm

It's a software company: http://www.stardock.com

njaakkola · 01/18/2007, 05:47 am

I have to make my voice heard here... I also refuse to purchase content with strong DRM as I want to have the option of enjoying that content in 10, 20, 30 years' time. This applies to games, eBooks, MP3's... Because of this, It's taken me until recently to actually start downloading music -- thank heavens for eMusic, who have no DRM but still sport a fairly decent catalogue!

It's a damn shame that Sam & Max is DRM'd; I'm a huge fan of the comics and the original game, and was really itching for the new one to come out.

I appreciate that Telltale is an indie publisher with a human touch to their business. I think they've said they'd release the content in the event of a bankruptcy, but this is not very credible as in such a case the IP would probably be bought by some other publisher who has made no such guarantees. The rights might well be lost in limbo anyway, owned by some corporation which has no inclination of ever using them commercially! Alternatively, should Telltale prosper (and I hope it does!), chances are some bigger entity will sooner or later purchase the company anyway. Bigger company goes under. Sam & Max lost forever.

Would it be possible to make at least the CD-ROM release non-authentication? That way, you would still be able to milk the people who _really_ want the game ASAP while avoiding piracy issues during the episodic release period, and then just unlock the game for everyone once the CD release is out?

I suppose there's little chance of this happening... Oh well.

Good work, though, for picking up Sam & Max from Sierra -- those two cuddly beasts have deserved a sequel for far too long!

ShaggE · 01/19/2007, 12:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

Except of course since LucasArts hasn't maintained any of their games in years (despite still being in business with paid employees and everything), you have to play the games with scummvm, a fan made tool (which incedentally bypasses all the codewheel and manual-based copy protection which used to be such a hassle with those games when they were new - you know, you had to go and photocopy them from your friend and stuff).

Unfortunately ScummVM doesn't affect the copy protection of Day Of The Tentacle, since it doesn't appear at the beginning of the game. Luckily many websites provide the copy protection solutions, if you don't mind plenty of alt-tabbing.

Derwin · 01/25/2007, 01:57 am

I vote for continual retinal scanning while you are playing the game. If you try to let someone who has not bought the game play it, it would cease to function. Also, if you go to a friends house or a library, you can play the game anywhere because it checks against an online database of registered retinal IDs. Yep.

Seriously, I like the serial number system best, because it does not install anything new that might mess up your system. Either that, or the CP that renders a game unplayable, or with limited functionality, when cracked. That way, people playing a cracked game would be moreso playing a "limited demo" and would have to pony up to enjoy the full game. All of these methods are possible to circumvent, but I do believe some form of CP at least deters some individuals from stealing the game.

11/05/2006, 11:36 am	#24
Maratanos Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 851	Hmmmm, my guess is that they have some sort of system in place to prevent that, but I couldn't tell you off hand what it was. __________________ I'll combine your MOM with those items!

12/09/2006, 02:03 am	#30
Roft Infraggable Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 35	I just purchased Sam & Max. Your copy protection confuses me. Will I be able to play this on more than 1 of my personal computers? I had planned to play this at home and on my Laptop when traveling. Also, is the activation ticket based? Will it time out after a period of not having net access? I go out to sea and loose stable net access for long periods. I'd have preferred the copy protection be spelled out clearly in black and white before purchasing. Though I am not entirely a close reader, I'd say that there wasn't anything to suggest that there was copy protection in place on this game. Is your system closer to Steam? Steam is the only form of DRM/Copy protection I trust thus far. Starforce, and those like it, have forever put a bad taste in my mouth. Last edited by Roft; 12/09/2006 at 02:06 am.

01/06/2007, 01:56 pm	#33
UK_John Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1	On Disk - Off Disk: It's still DRM I think gamers are getting the wool pulled over their eyes. Just because there is no on-disk protection the fact you have to register onto a site with a serial number to get the copious number of updates and 'improvements' is DRM! Just as all the complaints about HL2 and Steam are the same. 'I don't own the game, I can't sell it, or buy it second-hand, I am still dealing with a company that will say to me when I have bought what I believe to be a genuine game 'sorry, but that serial number exists, please BUY a new serial'! Assuming Stardock sells 100,000 copies of this game, in 18-24 months, 75,000 will be floating out there on ebay or in bargain bins or at boot sales and 100 other types of places, and people that don;t know about the Stardock DRM method will load up the game, look for updates, find out they have to jump through a few hoops, download a couple of programs only to then find the site telling them 'that serial number exists....'. As it currently stands, if a gamer dies and his estate is put up for sale, everything potentially will be re-usable except for the Gal Civ II game! To me that means I never truly own the game, because I cannot give it away. That's exactly why people complained about Steam and HL2 and that's exactly what I call DRM. But, the marketing is working. Because Starforce is so disliked (partly for being Russian and partly for stopping the pirates), Stardock is being pronounced as 'the saviour of gaming' with most gamers quite happy to say that because there is 'no DRM' he will buy the game! How about going back to the days where games had real content and real manuals? Where the protection was made sensible, like codes to get into doors or weapon recognition from a long list of weapon graphics in the back of the manual? Producing bland games with bland stories and bland pdf manuals is only making it easier for pirates, because we no longer have the love of the 'package' like we did with the Infocom games, or the Microprose games or Origin games with their 100 page plus fun, informative manuals, made out to be training manuals or top secret files or 1,000 year old magician books, including fold out maps, or cloth maps, or tech tree maps or keyboard overlays. Back then Pc gaming was a hobby. Now it's just throw away entertainment. this helps pirates and as I say will lead to 75,000 useless used copies of Galactic Civilizations II waiting for unsuspecting buyers..... Short term gain for Stardock, long term loss for gamers, especially mainstream gamers not clued in about Stardocks 'non DRM' that is DRM by any other name......

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11/05/2006, 07:13 am	#21
pippilina Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8	I just bought Culture Shock & installed it, and didn't notice any activation activity or have to type in any authentification key. From my POV it looks like there isn't any kind of copy protection going on. What exactly is going on with the copy protection? How's it work? What a delicious little game, I can't wait for the next episode.

11/05/2006, 10:26 am	#22
Maratanos Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 851	No, you see, that's probably because you downloaded it via a secure connection WHEN you bought it. If you'd just downloaded the demo, then activated it (making it the full game), well, then, you know.

11/05/2006, 11:24 am	#23
pippilina Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8	I see.. so then a copy purchased over a secure connection could be installed on someone else's machine without any kind of activation or serial number? Isn't that risky? Don't worry, I'm not out to pirate anything, I'm just curious to know how this works.

11/05/2006, 08:39 pm	#25
Alucard Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 482	I think that there is too much time and money wasted on copy protection. Pretty much every method of protection can be thwarted and even worse is the fact that some protections can screw with your system. (starforce anyone?) There are some games today that don't have any protection but still sell well. It's like dvd's. People can easily download any dvd and even print their own cover and make it look almost exactly like a real one but many people still want the real one for their collection. Gifts are a big thing too if you buy gifts for people then you don't want to give them a copy of something because that would "cheapen" the whole thing. My reason for buying games is a bit different. It is my industry and I'm not about to shoot myself in the foot by cheating companies I want a job from.

11/13/2006, 08:13 am	#26
thom_h Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 32	I've heard of games companies like E.A using ways to make the game 'unplayable' if the copy protection is cracked (On a cracked version of Godfather, the cars wouldn't work. etc) Maybe that could be done, I guess. At only 8 dollars a game though, I can't see why anybody would be so cheap to steal it!

11/25/2006, 06:03 am	#28
Dreamkin Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 17	I really think Stardock has the right idea about copy protection. To tell you the truth there is really nothing and absolutely nothing you can do against software piracy. Trust me, I know what I am talking about. I live in a city where until recently it was next to impossible to find and buy an original game even if you wanted. And right now you can find most games for the meager price of $150. So it is a heaven for piracy since I was a little kid. And really. It doesn't work. Whatever copy protection issue software companies think about there is a always a piracy solution. I am not defending piracy.. I am just saying that companies should do two things to lessen it. 1)Focus on digital distribution: A lot of people buy/get pirated games simply because they don't have the option of getting it in its original form. Digital distribution eliminates this. It is a viable form of international distribution which defeats any problems about stocks, importing issues, customs taxes and all those other things. 2)Do not spend money on copy protection. Really. Instead spend that money on making the game better. The money spent on copy protection really does not return to you. No one would buy a game because it has copy protection. They would just wait for that protection to be cracked. Simple as that. People who BUY games are the kind of people who would buy the game anyway. And people who DON'T buy games are the kind of guys who would not buy a game just because it is copy protected. They are the kind of guys who would wait for the game to be cracked.

12/09/2006, 08:12 am	#31
Jake Telltale Team Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,874	Once it's unlocked on your machine it's unlocked regardless of whether or not you have an Internet connection - it only phones in to check your activation key the first time you play. You can unlock it on up to five machines before the game will start complaining that you've used your maximum registrations, at which point, if need be, you can write us and we can reset your key. This isn't the most elegant solution, and we're looking into better things, including going with serial numbers or even a system more akin to Steam, but for right now we have what we have, and it's working for the large majority of our customers. Fortunately, as I've said elsewhere, Telltale is staffed entirely by human beings who do in fact care that our customers get a good experience out of our games (versus many companies whose customer support staffs seem to be employed solely by form letters), so if you do at any time find yourself in the small group who does run into problems with our activation system, you'll be assisted by a real person who has a strong interest in seeing you happily playing the game ASAP. As for putting clarification about the game's copy protection on the checkout page, that's a good suggestion. I'll pass the idea around and see.

12/09/2006, 08:44 am	#32
Roft Infraggable Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 35	Thanks for the reply and the info. ^ ~ After poking around the forums for a bit, I've seen behavior from the Teltale staff that is extremely conducive to keeping customers. I think you'd find if you explained your copy protection some what similarly to how you did to me, simple and sweet, that you may get a few more of those people that are sitting on the edge. I was a tad reluctant at first due to not entirely understanding how it all worked in the end. But then the kid in me could not resist Sam & Max. Glad I took the dive! (got all 6 chapters and anxiously anticipating each and every release). Roft A very happy customer!

01/08/2007, 07:32 pm	#34
Alucard Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 482	I've never even heard of stardocks before? Is this some sort of new game? =P

01/08/2007, 09:11 pm	#35
AstareGod Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 24	It's a software company: http://www.stardock.com

01/18/2007, 05:47 am	#36
njaakkola Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1	I have to make my voice heard here... I also refuse to purchase content with strong DRM as I want to have the option of enjoying that content in 10, 20, 30 years' time. This applies to games, eBooks, MP3's... Because of this, It's taken me until recently to actually start downloading music -- thank heavens for eMusic, who have no DRM but still sport a fairly decent catalogue! It's a damn shame that Sam & Max is DRM'd; I'm a huge fan of the comics and the original game, and was really itching for the new one to come out. I appreciate that Telltale is an indie publisher with a human touch to their business. I think they've said they'd release the content in the event of a bankruptcy, but this is not very credible as in such a case the IP would probably be bought by some other publisher who has made no such guarantees. The rights might well be lost in limbo anyway, owned by some corporation which has no inclination of ever using them commercially! Alternatively, should Telltale prosper (and I hope it does!), chances are some bigger entity will sooner or later purchase the company anyway. Bigger company goes under. Sam & Max lost forever. Would it be possible to make at least the CD-ROM release non-authentication? That way, you would still be able to milk the people who _really_ want the game ASAP while avoiding piracy issues during the episodic release period, and then just unlock the game for everyone once the CD release is out? I suppose there's little chance of this happening... Oh well. Good work, though, for picking up Sam & Max from Sierra -- those two cuddly beasts have deserved a sequel for far too long!

01/25/2007, 01:57 am	#38
Derwin Max's PH-Neutral Chewtoy Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 736	I vote for continual retinal scanning while you are playing the game. If you try to let someone who has not bought the game play it, it would cease to function. Also, if you go to a friends house or a library, you can play the game anywhere because it checks against an online database of registered retinal IDs. Yep. Seriously, I like the serial number system best, because it does not install anything new that might mess up your system. Either that, or the CP that renders a game unplayable, or with limited functionality, when cracked. That way, people playing a cracked game would be moreso playing a "limited demo" and would have to pony up to enjoy the full game. All of these methods are possible to circumvent, but I do believe some form of CP at least deters some individuals from stealing the game.