The puzzel lvl of the new game

See I don't think of it as 'clever' as contextually clever. I see those as 'Look at how clever I am as a designer'.

Sort of the designers way of showing you the player how smart they are.

I disagree. Bizarre though as the MI2 puzzles were, there was definitely a method to them, and there were many clues hidden in dialogue that told you how to do it. You just had to recognize them as clues and then apply them to what you were stumped on, which is part of any good adventure game.

On the topic of the S&M episodes... I suggest that Telltale look at, for instance, Paradise, or Keepsake, for suggestions on what not to do.

I disagree. Bizarre though as the MI2 puzzles were, there was definitely a method to them, and there were many clues hidden in dialogue that told you how to do it. You just had to recognize them as clues and then apply them to what you were stumped on, which is part of any good adventure game.

On the topic of the S&M episodes... I suggest that Telltale look at, for instance, Paradise, or Keepsake, for suggestions on what not to do.

Its not meant to be a totalitarian commentary on the series as a whole, just a reference to a few specific puzzles. Not every puzzle in that game was laid out well (nor any other game usually).

If the player has to resort to a FAQ and still manages to say "Man, I *never* would have gotten that on my own" then its usually one of the puzzles I was talking about.

Its not meant to be a totalitarian commentary on the series as a whole, just a reference to a few specific puzzles. Not every puzzle in that game was laid out well (nor any other game usually).

If the player has to resort to a FAQ and still manages to say "Man, I *never* would have gotten that on my own" then its usually one of the puzzles I was talking about.

Unfortunatly you have in me someone who has completed every single Adventure game ive ever played without a guide. Even Discworld, which had puzzles that made your brain melt due to their frank bizzareness.
But then as an avid Discworld reader I understood the method behind the madness.

[Dave Grossman]

These days one of the yardsticks I use to evaluate a puzzle I'm working on is the "what will the user's response be when she gives up and gets the solution from someone else?" factor.
"Oh, I get it! I should have thought of that!" = good puzzle
"How was I ever supposed to think of that?" = not so good puzzle

Yes, and that monkey wrench puzzle is one of the reasons I try not to ever make puzzles dependent on any kind of a play on words....

[jp-30]

While I can't think of any old examples off the top of my head, one of my favourite things in the old LEC adventures (and I do recall it happening beautifully in Cow Race with the smoking straw & the bee) is when confronted with a puzzle and you think "all too easy", and you're right. The designer is one step ahead of you and knew you'd try the obvious and so has made the puzzle more elaborate than you'd first thought.

Love those ones!

haha i loved how I gave the burning straw to the bee and he took it.. any puzzle where you have to think things through I love

[Haggis]

haha i loved how I gave the burning straw to the bee and he took it.. any puzzle where you have to think things through I love

Yeah, that was great. I was like, okay, that's easy... only to find out that it wasn't so easy after all. Moments like those are what makes an adventure game a lot more fun.

I actually expected it not to work but decided to try anyway to see if there'd be any reaction. And it was great... even if it was taken straight from the comic. The execution was absolutely perfect though, particularly the timing. Possibly my favourite moment in The Great Cow Race.

Possibly my favourite moment in The Great Cow Race.

Likewise.

Hmm. By far my favourite parts in the old LEC games were the character animations and cool backgrounds and locations. At that time, I actually didn't give a hoot about the story or anything. In fact, I hated the puzzles, because they were only a means of preventing me seeing further backgrounds or other cool animations. The screenshots on the box were done nicely, and the box art was nifty. This is why I bought those games. In fact, I didn't enjoy the puzzle aspects of Sam & Max: Hit the Road at all. I just wanted to see the locations and the animation that were in the demo.

Damn marketing machine.

These days one of the yardsticks I use to evaluate a puzzle I'm working on is the "what will the user's response be when she gives up and gets the solution from someone else?" factor.
"Oh, I get it! I should have thought of that!" = good puzzle
"How was I ever supposed to think of that?" = not so good puzzle

Yes, and that monkey wrench puzzle is one of the reasons I try not to ever make puzzles dependent on any kind of a play on words....

Yay!