New Theory/Rumor

[Shanksworthy]

Apologies for cross-posting -- I mentioned this in another forum section, but I think it should be here as well; I have a theory that Ron Gilbert is going to make a Monkey Island 5, and it's going to "fix" the trajectory of the story arc to include his vision of how the story was supposed to (but ultimately didn't) continue after M.I. 2. Or maybe it will tell the "secret" of MI (if there even is one). Or both.

We already have the following info...:

- Ron Gilbert has previously stated that if he had a chance, he'd have done a sequel that "rights all the wrongs" with the story arc.
- Mr. Gilbert was consulted before making Tales, i.e. he participated in brainstorming sessions.
- It has been stated in this very forum by members of the Tales dev team, that the SECRET of Monkey Island is "for Ron Gilbert to tell". Or something to that effect.
- Tales will skip directly to being considered "Part 6". Monkey Island 5 will presumably be an "imaginary" prequel to Tales.

My theory is that this "imaginary prequel" thing is a convenient device to allow Ron and LucasArts to shoehorn their 40-hour sweeping tale in between part 4 and "Tales".

As somebody pointed out, even if he is clever enough to "revise" MI history, he still can't undo the marriage between Guybrush and Elaine. That will be a compromise he'll have to make.

[serweet]

Well I hope that the game does get made, be it just speculation now, I do hope that it gets into the works.
Hopefully if Tales sells well, and the SE of Secret, then Lucas will see there is revenue in continuing with an epic adventure of lengthy proportions.
There definitely is a Secret of Monkey Island, and the famed treasure Big Whoop, and I hope, nay, pray for all Monkey fans that we can see it revealed to us in a fantastic adventure.

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

No, man, I don't think you're right, and I hope you're not.
Ron Gilbert's Monkey3 MUST start after MI2 and totally ignore CMI and EMI.
Like they never existed. He never spoke about a wish to make a Monkey 5.
In fact, the great opportunity would be right that: making a "real" sequel to MI2.

[Shanksworthy]

Originally Posted by Guybrush_Threepwood

No, man, I don't think you're right, and I hope you're not.
Ron Gilbert's Monkey3 MUST start after MI2 and totally ignore CMI and EMI.
Like they never existed. He never spoke about a wish to make a Monkey 5.
In fact, the great opportunity would be right that: making a "real" sequel to MI2.

He has spoken about a wish to make a sequil to MI2 though, and I think I saw somewhere where he said (or maybe joked) that he would have liked to do like a "revisionist history" version of part 3.

But in any case, I think that there are ways to make an "alternate" history that would make you happy as well. He could erase MI 3 and 4 in one shot by just making Guybrush "wake up from a bad dream" at the beginning of part 5! :-). Yeah I know it's a cheap plot device, and I'm partially kidding... but maybe he could do something clever.

In any case, I don't think that they would consult with Ron and then make TMI to take place after an "imaginary part 5", if they weren't planning on doing an *actual* part 5 with Ron involved. And I don't think that Ron would be involved if he wasn't making the story according to his original vision (with a few necessary compromises).

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

Originally Posted by Shanksworthy

He has spoken about a wish to make a sequil to MI2 though, and I think I saw somewhere where he said (or maybe joked) that he would have liked to do like a "revisionist history" version of part 3.

But in any case, I think that there are ways to make an "alternate" history that would make you happy as well. He could erase MI 3 and 4 in one shot by just making Guybrush "wake up from a bad dream" at the beginning of part 5! :-). Yeah I know it's a cheap plot device, and I'm partially kidding... but maybe he could do something clever.

In any case, I don't think that they would consult with Ron and then make TMI to take place after an "imaginary part 5", if they weren't planning on doing an *actual* part 5 with Ron involved. And I don't think that Ron would be involved if he wasn't making the story according to his original vision (with a few necessary compromises).

I see your point
Actually, I think the "imaginary sequel to a fifth chapter" part is due to protect themselves. I mean, just like saying: "This is an experiment, a wonderful experiment, we don't dare to make Monkey Island 5 as we're not/we don't feel ready right now. Enjoy TOMI as well, we'll make the best we can.".
I really think that the only other MI game that could be brought by Ron is just Monkey Island 3: MY VERSION.
While I think, however, that MI5 is a possible thing, probably developed by LucasArts or Telltale in the future.

[Chris1]

I hope Telltale just leave the gap open to imagination and don't rely on too much plot from the time-gap.

The Red Dwarf specials tried to pull an actual "imaginary sequel" (where the cast repeatedly reffered to events that had supposedly happened in a fictional unaired series that never actually existed) and it just wound up being annoying and frustrating.

[RockNRoll]

I sure hope so.

[S@bre]

People are getting far too hung up on the idea of "canon" for these games. Lighten up, what we have here is a video game series that's meant to be funny and have each game tell an enjoyable story, a series which doesn't in the least take itself seriously. The canon between the first two games and second two is pointless, all four games tell decent stories in their own right and don't need to be put together. Plotholes and continuity breaks are part and parcel of most franchises that are jovial and there to give a good laugh for a few hours of the day.

Someone mentioned Red Dwarf: a perfect example where canon matters not at all; there's a vague storyline that holds everything together, its ridiculously full of plotholes (most of them intentional), but it doesn't matter. Each episode should really be treated as its own thing. Canon in it is ultimately inconsequential.

In any case, Curse of Monkey Island and Escape from Monkey Island are here to stay (and have been for ten years). I highly doubt that if Gilbert is ever intricately involved in another Monkey Island game that he will say "screw these works by my former collegues and friends, I'm making my own Monkey Island 3!" He might have if they were considered absolutely atrocious, but they're not, they're decent Monkey Island games in their own right.

Just sit back and enjoy what we've got. Who cares that it might not tie itself up together as neatly as the works of Tolkien? It doesn't matter.

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

Originally Posted by S@bre

"screw these works by my former collegues and friends, I'm making my own Monkey Island 3!"

I'm not agreeing with you on this.
Ron often said that, if he had the rights, he would make his own Monkey 3: not to be disrespectful with collegues and friends, but just to tell the end of a story which was once thought (by him) as a trilogy.
I don't see anything bad in it, and I'm sure his friends and collegues would like to know how things should have gone too.
That's why he called this hypothetical game "Monkey Island 3a".
It's not like "screw those games", it's more of a "ok, here's how I thought the story would end, I'm not telling it's better, it's just how the maker of the series wanted things to go on."

[S@bre]

I'd still imagine that if done now, realistically, such story elements would be grafted around the existing games, rather than resetting to a previous point, regardless of whatever continuity errors that it might create with the non-Gilbert games.

[Jake]

Saying that we skipped Monkey 5 is more of a joke than anything, don't read too much into it...

Originally Posted by Shanksworthy

My theory is that this "imaginary prequel" thing is a convenient device to allow Ron and LucasArts to shoehorn their 40-hour sweeping tale in between part 4 and "Tales".

... Oops, you just did, right there. That was you reading too much into it I'd be up for seeing another Monkey game led by Ron Gilbert, but claiming there is an invisible Monkey 5 wasn't at all part of a grand plan. It's just us joking around, an easy way to explain to people that some time has passed between Escape from Monkey Island and Tales of Monkey Island.

Unless it was.

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

Originally Posted by S@bre

I'd still imagine that if done now, realistically, such story elements would be grafted around the existing games, rather than resetting to a previous point, regardless of whatever continuity errors that it might create with the non-Gilbert games.

Who knows?
Personally, I'm expecting a real Monkey 3 since 1991 (man, that means 18 years!), so I keep my fingers crossed for it.

[Shanksworthy]

Originally Posted by Jake

Saying that we skipped Monkey 5 is more of a joke than anything, don't read too much into it...



... Oops, you just did, right there. That was you reading too much into it I'd be up for seeing another Monkey game led by Ron Gilbert, but claiming there is an invisible Monkey 5 wasn't at all part of a grand plan. It's just us joking around, an easy way to explain to people that some time has passed between Escape from Monkey Island and Tales of Monkey Island.

Unless it was.

LOL... I completely get the joke, and I realize that we're not meant to think that there would really be an MI 5 (kinda like we weren't meant to think that there was really a Disk 155 in SoMI). I'm just having a bit of fun here too.

Thanks for killing the dream, dude! (Kidding, of course. Again I'm so glad you guys are making a Monkey Island game).

***Edit***

Originally Posted by Jake

Unless it was.

Er... wait, what was that last part? Hey, are you toying with me?

[Shanksworthy]

Originally Posted by S@bre

People are getting far too hung up on the idea of "canon" for these games. Lighten up, what we have here is a video game series that's meant to be funny and have each game tell an enjoyable story, a series which doesn't in the least take itself seriously..

I disagree. The jokes have to exist within a world/framework you can take semi-seriously, otherwise it all kinda feels disposable! If the MI games were only about the humor and had no continuity, they wouldn't have gained this large of a cult following. There is something very compelling about the MI cannon, and that's why people are excited about it (i.e. just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's not important ).

In any case, I'm very glad to see that the TTG devs care somewhat about canon, or at least AFAICT from their comments in interviews and forums.

[doodo!]

I've seen Gilbert interviews and he actually liked both the art and story to MI-3 ...maybe he didn't love the story, but he did like the art work , he has said it in his own words. I don't think Gilbert would disrespect the authoritive knowledge and optimism of monkey island fans around the world. I think he would re-appreciate, re-image his work around the contributions lucas arts and other companies have made, and also the religion of his fans . I love Ron Gilbert, but I don't want a monkey island game that totally rapes the series just for nostaligic factors and to give Ron a big hard on , and to cover him in bronze. He is part of a evolving legacy and he should only continue to contribute to it .

[BrenteR]

I suggest a plot device where Guybrush gets sucked into a big black hole (aehm i mean maelstrom of course) with his awesome fast ship and gets thrown back like a couple of years only to meet with young versions of genius engineer/inventor Herman and Elaine and totally change history while providing the means to defeat LeChucks son who came back from the future as well to take revenge on younger Guybrush for kicking his daddy's butt over and over again.

ya i know, one might have seen something similar somewhere... creativity isn't one of my virtues =(

[Shiversul]

Why isnt CMI a real sequel?

I absolutely love that game
Wasnt Ron involved or something?

And what was supposed to happen but didnt in CMI?
I havnt played the games for a while, so i might need a bit of a rehash...

[HoppyDragon]

Originally Posted by Shiversul

Why isnt CMI a real sequel?

I absolutely love that game
Wasnt Ron involved or something?

And what was supposed to happen but didnt in CMI?
I havnt played the games for a while, so i might need a bit of a rehash...

If you played and completed MI2, there's an unexplained gap between the end of it and the beginning of CMI. Ron Gilbert was not involved at all with CMI and has stated that they took the story in a different direction than he intended for it.

[RockNRoll]

Originally Posted by Shanksworthy

I disagree. The jokes have to exist within a world/framework you can take semi-seriously, otherwise it all kinda feels disposable! If the MI games were only about the humor and had no continuity, they wouldn't have gained this large of a cult following. There is something very compelling about the MI cannon, and that's why people are excited about it (i.e. just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's not important ).

In any case, I'm very glad to see that the TTG devs care somewhat about canon, or at least AFAICT from their comments in interviews and forums.

Totally agree. The first two games totally swept me up in the story, it wasn't JUST about the jokes. The jokes were funnier because of that, they were comic relief. But the game itself, the environments, the things you had to do, the plot development, were all actually really cool. There have been so many knock-off games that are JUST about being funny and off the wall and not taking anything seriously, but they fall flat.

[Jake]

One thing we see as a plus to doing the games monthly is that, if we do our jobs right and you guys start getting into the story and world, everyone who is playing it will be along for the same ride month to month -- like playing Monkey Island in a movie theater full of fans, except that the theater is the forums and Internet at large, and the movie is five chapters of a video game. You get the idea. .. ?