Telltale Games

99X · 07/08/2009, 03:29 am

I'm not talking about the remake(s)... but it seems like every new adventure game, especially the ones that TT is making - they're all in 3D. Do they have to be? Can't they change it up a bit and do something like the secret of monkey island special edition art style? I'm not saying 3D is all that bad, it just seems to be a little more bland then the 2D style.

I miss when adventure games looked like Saturday morning cartoons. I don't know if there is a perception that it won't sell unless 3D, cause that can't be the case...

Tyranin · 07/08/2009, 03:43 am

I absolutely agree, although I'd also like to know why every new adventure game has to chopped up into episodes so that the feeling of acomplishment is just.. gone! Spending a couple of hours on an oldskool adventure game was epic and you'd get an overwhelming feeling of success when you complete them. But when I tumble through episode after episode I just feel sickened and rewardless. And a lot more skint then when I started out.

But enough about that, the graphics on the older games tend to be more aesthetically pleasing to me than the new ones, I can't explain why but it's probably just Nostalgia.

Also I see what you mean by the games looking bland. Because when the S&M games came out I thought the excat same thing. The dull textures on super round 3D movies is not as exciting as a manic looking pixelated Lagomorph. The retouch for the Secret of Monkey Island looks fantastic. And I wish that was the style everyone went for.

But you're absolutly right, your game doesn't need to be 3D to sell it. In fact 3D technology is old, it may be better defined in this day and age, but it's still all the same.

tobar · 07/08/2009, 03:44 am

Telltale was built from the ground up to be an episodic gaming company. Their entire infrastructure is based around this and they've built custom tools and an engine to accomplish this. It wouldn't be possible for them to do a 2D game the way that they do their other games. It would be too time consuming and probably cost more in the long run.

That said, I'd love a 2D Telltale game but I don't see that ever happening.

Linque · 07/08/2009, 05:19 am

You guys should focus less on complaining and focus more on actually searching for the 2d adventure games. Here's three that I'm most excited about right now:

http://the-whispered-world.com/

http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,767

http://www.machinarium.com/

Don't demonize the 3D developers because they make something in a way they prefer. There's plenty of room for both worlds.

MusicallyInspired · 07/08/2009, 06:38 am

Because.

Seriously though, 3D is cheaper and faster.

leon101 · 07/08/2009, 10:04 am

Yes, 3D is cheaper and faster. That's why Pixar exist.

Episodic gaming has more pros then cons I think. Plus we get more adventures quicker and cheaper this way.

Olaus Petrus · 07/08/2009, 10:17 am

It's how the game is done what matters, not if game is in 2D or in 3D. There are good and bad graphics in both categories. 3D can be cool.

Bad example is Simon the Sorcerer 3D, which I never bought because of the hideous looks and controls (although now I reconsider it, after hearing that there's decent adventure under all that crap. And because it costs only few €).

Good example is Gabriel Knight 3, which despite being ten years old is still one of the greatest adventure games ever made. In that game 3D really served some purpose and you could freely move the camera (for example to look inside drawer or trash can) while you moved your character around in traditional point and click method.

And after playing first episode of Tales, I must say that I like it's graphic style.

presidentmax · 07/08/2009, 10:17 am

because it isn't the early 90's anymore...

p.s i love 2d graphics, but some people act senile over 2d graphics.

Alucard · 07/08/2009, 10:29 am

There really is a revival of the whole 2D graphic thing. This is mainly because the digital distribution model is being adopted so readily now. It comes as no surprise that there is also a revival of sorts for adventure games. I think people are tired of playing the same generic shooters and are looking to some of the classics of the past. 2d is great but that doesn't mean 3d can't also be good.

natlinxz · 07/08/2009, 12:27 pm

I'm sick of these jerks. Why do you have an account on telltales site if you don't like their games? Quit complaining an enjoy some great games! What difference does it make if it's in 3D? 3D is better, that's why it took over.

Linque · 07/08/2009, 12:49 pm

Seriously though, the reason 3D has almost completely taken over the AG genre is that it indeed is faster and cheaper to make games with. I tip my hat to the developers who have to courage to make games in 2D, and will definitely buy each and every game they make out of support. Probably will buy copies for a few friends as well.

natlinxz · 07/08/2009, 12:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linque

Seriously though, the reason 3D has almost completely taken over the AG genre is that it indeed is faster and cheaper to make games with. I tip my hat to the developers who have to courage to make games in 2D, and will definitely buy each and every game they make out of support. Probably will buy copies for a few friends as well.

2D doesn't automatically make a game good, it has to actually be a decent game first. Some examples are, well, every crappy video game made before the N64. Some examples include PacMan for atari, ET, and well, you know the list.

Darkmeteor · 07/08/2009, 05:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linque

You guys should focus less on complaining and focus more on actually searching for the 2d adventure games. Here's three that I'm most excited about right now:

http://the-whispered-world.com/

http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,767

http://www.machinarium.com/

Don't demonize the 3D developers because they make something in a way they prefer. There's plenty of room for both worlds.

wow, that machinarium game looks really fantastic, thanks for the tips, I'm really looking forward to that one

RMJ1984 · 07/08/2009, 05:52 pm

Can only support OP, it makes me sad, but what can we do

i will say on some areas the 3d has been improved like say in the Voodoo ladys house its looks quite amazing, almost as detailed as 2d, more of that wow.

But also in de singe house, so it can be done, we can only hope Telltale can afford and have the time for more of it. Less boring square shapes, more wacky shapes, houses that are bigger on the inside than outside and stuff like that

so they are moving in the right direction and that is good.

Nimeni · 07/08/2009, 07:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobar

Telltale was built from the ground up to be an episodic gaming company. Their entire infrastructure is based around this and they've built custom tools and an engine to accomplish this. It wouldn't be possible for them to do a 2D game the way that they do their other games. It would be too time consuming and probably cost more in the long run.

Hey, do you realize that South Park is 3D? I bring this up to point out that you can make 3D models look very 2D. It seems it would be possible to tweak the telltale tool to create 3D images that appeared two dimensional. So don't lose hope. They would just have to decide they actually wanted to do it first.

Frogacuda · 07/08/2009, 09:20 pm

There. Go buy that. If you don't, the reason why they won't make them is in the mirror.

smashing · 07/08/2009, 10:20 pm

Hmm... is there a 3D adventure game yet? I thought most of the newer games are simply 2.5D. The models are 3D rendered no doubt, but I'd yet to see a fully rendered 3D background in any adventure game. Anyone can prove me wrong?

Snader · 07/08/2009, 10:34 pm

As an 35 year old adventure gamer who played maniac mansion on his C64 while he didn't speak a word English back then, I want to say this:

Simple... 3D is cheaper to make; and since the adventure genre didn't sell well the last decade they had to use the cheaper and easier way to revive the adventure genre.

In 2D, for a sprite like Guybrush an animator was drawing frames like crazy to make a decent animation. Back in those days there were low resolutions, but these days everything has to be in high resolution and for that even more animation frames are needed. Take a look at the MI remake of Lucasarts. The number of animation frames are still from the old game, but the graphics are drawn completely new... this looks a bit wierd: beatifull graphics but not fluent animation.

In 3D you make a model and you can do with this model almost anything you like. Also, in 3D you have the possibility to use cameraangles like the movies do to make some more dramatic effect. Of course this should be done properly!

A game like Grim Fandango (and the vampire game featured above this post) is 2.5D. The backgrounds are pre-rendered or hand drawn and the characters are 3D. A game like Tales of MI is fully 3D (exept for the inventory and the mousepointer though) and for me it seems to be THE solution and answer to modern games to say: the adventure genre is not dead!

So, if Telltale didn't make the games in 3D, they probably weren't able to deliver so much games in such a short time. The adventure genre wouldn't be were it is now and where it is going.

wisp · 07/08/2009, 10:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashing

Hmm... is there a 3D adventure game yet? I thought most of the newer games are simply 2.5D. The models are 3D rendered no doubt, but I'd yet to see a fully rendered 3D background in any adventure game. Anyone can prove me wrong?

well all the telltale games had full 3d backgrounds. how else would they be able to position the camera freely during cutscenes? well, they could prerender every cutscene. but that would take a lot more time and also prerendered images take up a lot more disk space. the 2.5d thing was mostly used in games that were designed for consoles, like monkey island 4. on a console you can't change resolutions, so prerendered backgrounds work well.

anyway, i don't think i can prove anything here, but if you haven't played sam&max season 1 yet, you could get the free "abe lincoln must die" and see for yourself..looks pretty 3d to me.

tobar · 07/09/2009, 12:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimeni

Hey, do you realize that South Park is 3D? I bring this up to point out that you can make 3D models look very 2D.

Actually no it's not. They've just simply recreated the construction paper shapes and animate them digitally now. You could do the same using After Effects, Toon Boom or MOHO (now Anime Studio).

As for making 3D look like 2D, that can be accomplished with cell shading like Telltale used for SBCG4AP.

07/08/2009, 03:29 am	#1
99X Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5	Why do all NEW adventure games need to be in 3D? I'm not talking about the remake(s)... but it seems like every new adventure game, especially the ones that TT is making - they're all in 3D. Do they have to be? Can't they change it up a bit and do something like the secret of monkey island special edition art style? I'm not saying 3D is all that bad, it just seems to be a little more bland then the 2D style. I miss when adventure games looked like Saturday morning cartoons. I don't know if there is a perception that it won't sell unless 3D, cause that can't be the case...

07/08/2009, 03:43 am	#2
Tyranin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 12	I absolutely agree, although I'd also like to know why every new adventure game has to chopped up into episodes so that the feeling of acomplishment is just.. gone! Spending a couple of hours on an oldskool adventure game was epic and you'd get an overwhelming feeling of success when you complete them. But when I tumble through episode after episode I just feel sickened and rewardless. And a lot more skint then when I started out. But enough about that, the graphics on the older games tend to be more aesthetically pleasing to me than the new ones, I can't explain why but it's probably just Nostalgia. Also I see what you mean by the games looking bland. Because when the S&M games came out I thought the excat same thing. The dull textures on super round 3D movies is not as exciting as a manic looking pixelated Lagomorph. The retouch for the Secret of Monkey Island looks fantastic. And I wish that was the style everyone went for. But you're absolutly right, your game doesn't need to be 3D to sell it. In fact 3D technology is old, it may be better defined in this day and age, but it's still all the same. Last edited by Tyranin; 07/08/2009 at 03:47 am.

07/08/2009, 10:04 am	#6
leon101 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cordell, OK Posts: 177	Yes, 3D is cheaper and faster. That's why Pixar exist. Episodic gaming has more pros then cons I think. Plus we get more adventures quicker and cheaper this way. __________________ I'll cut you length-wise!

07/08/2009, 10:17 am	#7
Olaus Petrus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 494	It's how the game is done what matters, not if game is in 2D or in 3D. There are good and bad graphics in both categories. 3D can be cool. Bad example is Simon the Sorcerer 3D, which I never bought because of the hideous looks and controls (although now I reconsider it, after hearing that there's decent adventure under all that crap. And because it costs only few €). Good example is Gabriel Knight 3, which despite being ten years old is still one of the greatest adventure games ever made. In that game 3D really served some purpose and you could freely move the camera (for example to look inside drawer or trash can) while you moved your character around in traditional point and click method. And after playing first episode of Tales, I must say that I like it's graphic style. Last edited by Olaus Petrus; 07/08/2009 at 10:19 am.

07/08/2009, 12:27 pm	#10
natlinxz Cooler than You Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 703	I'm sick of these jerks. Why do you have an account on telltales site if you don't like their games? Quit complaining an enjoy some great games! What difference does it make if it's in 3D? 3D is better, that's why it took over. __________________ Studies have shown that people who click on links to youtube channels in signatures are 60% happier. My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/natlinxz Last edited by natlinxz; 07/08/2009 at 12:37 pm.

07/08/2009, 03:44 am	#3
tobar Blue Blazer irregular Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 695	Telltale was built from the ground up to be an episodic gaming company. Their entire infrastructure is based around this and they've built custom tools and an engine to accomplish this. It wouldn't be possible for them to do a 2D game the way that they do their other games. It would be too time consuming and probably cost more in the long run. That said, I'd love a 2D Telltale game but I don't see that ever happening.

07/08/2009, 05:19 am	#4
Linque Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 324	You guys should focus less on complaining and focus more on actually searching for the 2d adventure games. Here's three that I'm most excited about right now: http://the-whispered-world.com/ http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,767 http://www.machinarium.com/ Don't demonize the 3D developers because they make something in a way they prefer. There's plenty of room for both worlds.

07/08/2009, 10:17 am	#8
presidentmax Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 298	because it isn't the early 90's anymore... p.s i love 2d graphics, but some people act senile over 2d graphics.

07/08/2009, 10:29 am	#9
Alucard Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 482	There really is a revival of the whole 2D graphic thing. This is mainly because the digital distribution model is being adopted so readily now. It comes as no surprise that there is also a revival of sorts for adventure games. I think people are tired of playing the same generic shooters and are looking to some of the classics of the past. 2d is great but that doesn't mean 3d can't also be good.

07/08/2009, 12:49 pm	#11
Linque Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 324	Seriously though, the reason 3D has almost completely taken over the AG genre is that it indeed is faster and cheaper to make games with. I tip my hat to the developers who have to courage to make games in 2D, and will definitely buy each and every game they make out of support. Probably will buy copies for a few friends as well.

07/08/2009, 05:52 pm	#14
RMJ1984 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 607	Can only support OP, it makes me sad, but what can we do i will say on some areas the 3d has been improved like say in the Voodoo ladys house its looks quite amazing, almost as detailed as 2d, more of that wow. But also in de singe house, so it can be done, we can only hope Telltale can afford and have the time for more of it. Less boring square shapes, more wacky shapes, houses that are bigger on the inside than outside and stuff like that so they are moving in the right direction and that is good. Last edited by RMJ1984; 07/08/2009 at 05:56 pm.

07/08/2009, 09:20 pm	#16
Frogacuda Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 516	There. Go buy that. If you don't, the reason why they won't make them is in the mirror.

07/08/2009, 10:20 pm	#17
smashing Angels Fan Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 424	Hmm... is there a 3D adventure game yet? I thought most of the newer games are simply 2.5D. The models are 3D rendered no doubt, but I'd yet to see a fully rendered 3D background in any adventure game. Anyone can prove me wrong?

07/08/2009, 10:34 pm	#18
Snader Wannabee pirate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 4	As an 35 year old adventure gamer who played maniac mansion on his C64 while he didn't speak a word English back then, I want to say this: Simple... 3D is cheaper to make; and since the adventure genre didn't sell well the last decade they had to use the cheaper and easier way to revive the adventure genre. In 2D, for a sprite like Guybrush an animator was drawing frames like crazy to make a decent animation. Back in those days there were low resolutions, but these days everything has to be in high resolution and for that even more animation frames are needed. Take a look at the MI remake of Lucasarts. The number of animation frames are still from the old game, but the graphics are drawn completely new... this looks a bit wierd: beatifull graphics but not fluent animation. In 3D you make a model and you can do with this model almost anything you like. Also, in 3D you have the possibility to use cameraangles like the movies do to make some more dramatic effect. Of course this should be done properly! A game like Grim Fandango (and the vampire game featured above this post) is 2.5D. The backgrounds are pre-rendered or hand drawn and the characters are 3D. A game like Tales of MI is fully 3D (exept for the inventory and the mousepointer though) and for me it seems to be THE solution and answer to modern games to say: the adventure genre is not dead! So, if Telltale didn't make the games in 3D, they probably weren't able to deliver so much games in such a short time. The adventure genre wouldn't be were it is now and where it is going.

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