Way too easy for fans of the genre

Think about it, monkey island 2 and CMI's easy modes were just the same game with some puzzles taken out.

So for it to work, Telltale would either have to make the game longer with harder puzzles in the extra bits, for hard mode, which would take a whole lot more time, or make it the same length but make easy mode much shorter than the already short 3-4 hours, which is no good either.

The only other alternative would be to make easy and hard mode the same length but make some of the puzzles completely different, but again that'd involve a much greater workload.

As far as I see the best compromise is to make the puzzles slightly harder than they are currently, but not enough to turn off the casual gamers.

I suppose it is too easy for you folks, but I am still getting stuck!
Could you help me a little please?
I am facing off with Brady Culture, the 3 Pop Rockers are alternately influenced by him and me. Everything I try, he says, "Get the dog". I imagine there is an obvious solution, but I can't see it.

Help?

Rick

[Legolas813]

^ Hints board: http://www.telltalegames.com/forum/listthreads?forum=17

Maybe you could change a setting, so talking with Max, doesn't have him tell you exactly what to do to solve each puzzle B-)

Maybe you could change a setting, so talking with Max, doesn't have him tell you exactly what to do to solve each puzzle B-)

Actually, you just gave me a good idea for a suggestion. The trouble we have right now is that the game is too easy for veteran adventure gamers, but at a fairly good level for newcomers. It seems that making two difficulty settings would be difficult because you'd either have to remove content from the easy mode or make completely different puzzles for each, which would be too time-consuming (making the game take almost twice as long to develop.) So why not, instead, have an option where Max gives hints? The puzzles could be challenging enough for the adventure gamer, but if they're too hard for the newcomer, they can switch on "Max Hint Mode" and Max will give subtle clues, maybe three for each puzzle, each one making the answer a little more obvious. Newcomers don't get frustrated, adventure gamers leave satisfied, no one misses any content, it doesn't take any longer to design new puzzles. It's win/win!

Yep.

I guess the cool thing about the puzzles in HTR is that when something WORKED, the resulting animation was so cool and it made me feel like I MADE THAT HAPPEN! Like, WOW! I made a helicopter pick up Max and take him to the BALL OF TWINE! See that?! I DID THAT!

That was an adventure game, for me, in the true sense of the word.

I haven't even played the game and I know it's too easy already. *SIGH*

There's no more creativity left in the world.

The fact that games NEED to be far simpler these days proves my personal theory that the general populace is getting more stupid by the day. That makes me a SAAAAAAD bunny.

Actually, you just gave me a good idea for a suggestion. The trouble we have right now is that the game is too easy for veteran adventure gamers, but at a fairly good level for newcomers. It seems that making two difficulty settings would be difficult because you'd either have to remove content from the easy mode or make completely different puzzles for each, which would be too time-consuming (making the game take almost twice as long to develop.) So why not, instead, have an option where Max gives hints? The puzzles could be challenging enough for the adventure gamer, but if they're too hard for the newcomer, they can switch on "Max Hint Mode" and Max will give subtle clues, maybe three for each puzzle, each one making the answer a little more obvious. Newcomers don't get frustrated, adventure gamers leave satisfied, no one misses any content, it doesn't take any longer to design new puzzles. It's win/win!

you know what? ....
It could work.... It could really work, and quite well.

DO YOU READ THIS TELLTALE? this is one of the better fan suggestions.

[Udvarnoky]

There's no more creativity left in the world.

I hope you're not implying that difficult puzzles = creativity. Because, Hoo boy, that's a good one! )

The fact that games NEED to be far simpler these days proves my personal theory that the general populace is getting more stupid by the day. That makes me a SAAAAAAD bunny.

Not to defend the general populace as anything other than drooling imbeciles, but it also might have to do with the fact that while in 1993 a game could be supported by a relatively small group of people who took pleasure in applying paper cups to part of a broken golf ball retriever in order to get a glob of tar while bungee-jumping, you have to aim a little wider than that nowadays if you expect to be successful.

I don't see how that would be less enjoyable then... well I don't want to spoil any puzzles in culture shock but pick one. It's just taking somthing your told to do and doing it.

You could create a ridiculous amount of objects that could make the game harder without having insane puzzles. That would lead to more things to discover and more work until you find the things that actually have a direct meaning for the progression of the game.

The games would be more fun to play (Telltale would have to make funny comments for every object in the game); it would lead to more things to discover (increasing the sensation of freedom in the game, making it seem less linear); it would get a higher replay value ; it doesn't make the solution of the puzzles wacky - just harder to figure out; and best of all - I might buy the games. (I just refuse to pay for a game that I can finish at one sitting)

Seriously. If you don't want to increase the difficulty of the puzzles, you can at least put in more things to interact with in the game.

But I would prefer if you just made the games plain harder, still increasing the amount of objects, and had a function where Max can give hints.

I nearly bought the HIT THE ROAD walkthrough before I even got the game, to find out about all the puzzles, and mainly because it had the same cover as the box art by Purcell.

I'm such a sucker for that box art. I'd buy anything with it on. My mom persuaded me not to buy the walkthrough before I bought the game, but I nearly did, with my own pocket money...but then I wouldn't have been able to buy the game. And that would've sucked.

If you mean having items in your inventory that would be useless I'd be against that. There's a few laws adventure games of the genre have stuck by. The most noticable ones are If somthing happens it is supposed to happen, You can't die, and if you pick up an item there must be some use for it. Breaking these rules would probably throw off more people.

Ya. I think they had that in THE LEGEND OF KYRANDIA - itmes you picked up and they were useless. Having useless items just wastes time to when you're cycling through all your inventory items, trying to USE OBJECT X WITH Y.

Useless items = suckie.

Don't even know why I enjoy adventure games. They're so...pointless. But I'm irresistably drawn to Sam & Max & DOTT. I suppose it's because it's like a cartoon, but FAKE-O interactive and involving.

My life is a video game.

My hintbook came with my copy of the enhanced version of HTR.

I have to say, I used it quite a bit. But even with the use of the hintbook I still couldn't figure out the "use max with fusebox" in the Tunnel of love. the whole using the flashlight with max thing confused me.
I finally figured it out using the tab button to switch verbs (since it was a one button mouse on a mac)


"Wanna ride the Tunnel of Love again?"

My hintbook came with my copy of the enhanced version of HTR.

I have to say, I used it quite a bit. But even with the use of the hintbook I still couldn't figure out the "use max with fusebox" in the Tunnel of love. the whole using the flashlight with max thing confused me.
I finally figured it out using the tab button to switch verbs (since it was a one button mouse on a mac)


"Wanna ride the Tunnel of Love again?"

Hehe, I remember riding that thing over and over again, until Max finally dropped a clue. I think he said "Lighten up, Sam" or something.

--Erwin

[Emily]

I think it's ironic that people who haven't played the game yet are saying it's too easy and telling us what we need to do to make it harder.

Hehe, I remember riding that thing over and over again, until Max finally dropped a clue. I think he said "Lighten up, Sam" or something.

Same here. )

I don't see how that would be less enjoyable then... well I don't want to spoil any puzzles in culture shock but pick one. It's just taking somthing your told to do and doing it.

Maybe you're just really smart. I've received a lot of emails from reviewers who are stuck on puzzles in Culture Shock. (And I got stuck a few times myself when I played it the first time.)

I've also received emails from more than one person who said the difficulty level was perfect and as busy people without a lot of free time for gaming, they appreciated being able to finish a game in a few sittings. Telltale is trying to reach as wide an audience as possible with these games, and that means making some decisions about how the games are designed. We're definitely reading the feedback, and thanks to everyone for giving it, but please remember that we have some very experienced designers working on these games who make their design decisions for a reason.

but please remember that we have some very experienced designers working on these games who make their design decisions for a reason.

It's of course very disappointing for old fans of the adventure game genre to realize that their highly anticipated sequel proves to be just a simple "drive-through" experience.

I know that many of my friends would've bought the new S&M games if they were harder. I mean, they completed HTR in a few days WITHOUT walktrough. (yeah I know, I may be surrounded by smart-asses - but they are still potential customers).

But now I'm getting convinced that these games are not for me. They were never targeted to me in the first place, and will never be.
Tough luck, but there are other (old) adventure games out there to play.

There is a design technique for adventure games that can help make the puzzles simultaneously more obtuse and more logical. Now, I came up with this realization recently, so I’m sure designers have been employing this technique for a while. I probably just didn’t notice.

That is to create puzzles that conform with the idiosyncrasies of a character. The player will be forced to get away from conventional thinking, because they cannot simply come up with their own logical interpretation of a circumstance. This could logically explain how puzzle solutions that seem reasonable to the player do not actually solve the puzzle (moving a chair across the room to reach higher would be ideal, except for the protagonist’s deadly fear of chairs).

It also benefits the story. If success is dependent upon understanding the character, you give the player that much more motivation to understand how the character thinks.

Personally, I’m also a fan of becoming someone interesting, and I feel much more absorbed in a game when I’m forced to think and act like someone else, than thinking and acting as I would. Not sure if this is the case for everyone else.

This does seem a little obvious, though. With the long history of adventure design, this theory has probably been implemented. But perhaps not to the level I have in mind.

I’d like to see the protagonist comment directly on how they view an obstacle, giving insight into how he or she views the puzzle. This isn’t to be confused with a hint (gee, I sure would love to have widget X right now!). Not an overt one, anyway. But maybe an indication of how the character would approach a problem. Take a locked door that the character must get through. Perhaps a shifty character would say something like “locks are made to be broken�. Maybe a more impatient/violent character, like Max, would say “This door fills me with loathing and disgust. It must be destroyed.� Neither gives away how to do a puzzle, but it gets the player thinking along the lines of the character. If the designer wants, they can make it more obtuse than that, though. Perhaps simply by speculating on the character, the player can deduce how that character would approach an obstacle. Whether subtle or overt, making puzzles character centric rather than player centric is a great way to make puzzles obtuse without making them illogical or impossibly difficult.

[Emily]

It's of course very disappointing for old fans of the adventure game genre to realize that their highly anticipated sequel proves to be just a simple "drive-through" experience.

But if you read the reviews, that's not really what people are saying.