• Assuming it's black's turn, I see it as:

    F7 to F5 to get the queen out of the way, then D2 to D1 to get the new Rook/Queen (depending on how you play). The white queen then can't do much, unless they move to G2 and then draw black in to an exchange that knocks out all queens, with the king's only escape guarded by the pawn at H5, so I don't see it as impossible.

    If it's white's turn, then you still can't do much because it seems your only option is to exchange queens and pray for a stale mate, but I don't see it working out well at all, so I'm inclined to agree with Carver.

    • If you play f7-f5, then I'd counter that with e4-e7 and a check for you. ;)

      • It's interesting how both player's defences almost mirror each other, so even if you did put me in check, I'd eventually do the same to you once we both got our pawns exchanged. Also, going back to E7 would take your queen out of a diagonal guard for your King, so that might not be a good move.

        Either way, I think it really depends on whose turn it is, and considering the actions of the characters in this game, I don't see a high chance of someone being a chess master, so there's some hope for white despite what Carver says.

        • Maybe you didn't realise the seriousness of my move and how your move really screwed you over. For the record black moves f7-f5 white e4-e7 check. Now your only option of getting out of the check is to move the king from h7-h6, because h8 or g8 gets you into a checkmate when I promote my pawn. But I would promote anyway so the Board would look like this:

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          It's blacks turn now and you don't really have many options left and and I can't see a good one. Because as soon as I move a8-h8 you are checkmate. You have no option of taking out my queens. So you pretty much have to set me check, if you want to drag this out any longer. The only viable option is f1-f2. (All other check moves would allow me to take out your queen.) In that case I'd play h2-h3. And now it desn't matter what you do, because it is over. Every move that would set me into check, will cost you your queen and there is simply no move that will prevent me from playing a8-h8 and thereby setting you checkmate.

          • What if I moved the pawn at G6 to G5? I could at least avoid entrapment of my king for a little while. But then you'd probably go from A8 to H8, forcing me from B8 to B7, and then you could move your queen from B5 to B7 which ends the game.

            So it seems we agree that white isn't in an impossible situation after all, though perhaps Carver would respond better than my first move against white.

  • All of you are geeks Im sorry but all of you are over looking this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to hard. He only took a look at the board for 3 seconds all this means is that hes fond of chess and logic. Other people would not have even gave the board the time of day like me screw it Id rather not stress over it. You guys are taking hours using chess sims and what not and arguing just to compute Carver's 5 second logic and woopty cocka-doole-doole in the hours you spent examining it I would not be surprised if Carver is wrong its not like he could computer sim something in 5 seconds anyway. There's no foreshadowing or anything within this all we find out from this part of the story is that Carver is a man that likes his game of chess. Its not a developer fault its just a simple display of carver's character

    Stop all these pointless arguments and K.I.S.S.- Keep it simple stupid XP


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    Butt-head BANNED

    I think chess sucks. It's boring and complicated.

  • I haven't played chess in a while, but if white moves it's pawn to a-8 he can cover his other queen who can then move to g-2 or h-1 to protect the king.

    Maybe the white pawn symbolizes Clementine and Carver didn't take her into account.

    "People keep underestimating me"

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    Let me know if my logic is wrong here, it has been awhile:

    BQ: f1-f2(check) only logical move for white is : WK: h2-h3

    BP: d2-d1 (promote) Queen white has some options but they are limited because you threaten BQ:d1->g4 (checkmate) so there is 2 basic ways this can go

    Situation 1: WQ:e4->g2 which leads to BQ:d1-g4 (check) > WK:h3->h2 > BQ: g4 (capture)-> g3 (Check) > WK:h2->h1 > BQ g3 (capture)->g2 (checkmate)

    this is 5 moves, but what is interesting is if white chooses not to go WQ:e4-> g2 on his "free turn" thus keeping square g4 protected: If im not mistaken, most moves besides g2 will end up as : BQ:d1->f1 (checkmate) which would be the 3 moves he could of been talking about

    there are moves that allow white to prolong the game such as WQ:e4->e2 or WQ:e4 (capture)-> g6 (check) but I think these are just delaying the inevitable, if I read this correctly black cannot lose this game

    • BQ: f1-f2(check) only logical move for white is : WK: h2-h3

      Right there is your mistake. My response to f1-f2 would be e4-g2. In a situation where white is at a slight disadvantage with its pieces, the last thing I would do as white is to let black keep the initiative. So, if you promote now, then you'd have to underpromote to knight in order to cover your queen. If you do that, then I'd play a7-a8 and promote. If you take out my queen instead, then I'd take out yours and after that we promote. If you move the black queen f2-a7, then obviously I would respond with g2-d2.

      This game is still undecided and if I had black, I would see if I can get the initiative and if I can't (that means white makes no weak moves) then I'd offer my opponent a draw. And if you read my discussion with Katalept, then you'll see that black can indeed lose this game by playing f7 as its first step.

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    CathalOHara Moderator

    Maybe he thought they were playing Poker (Red Dwarf reference nobody's gonna get here).

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    Yours is the right to lead the smarty-pansies!

  • While I'm fairly certain (despite my lack of playing chess, I only know the rules from about eight years ago) that I can delay the game for more than three moves as white, I'm more interested in the fact that I don't think even Carver would be able to make that 3-moves judgement in three seconds flat. I assume that even an amazing player would take a few seconds more to get his bearings on piece placement and predictions, so I just assumed that Carver was bullshitting, since he didn't have nearly enough time.

    • it doesnt really take that long for experts to get their bearings with piece placement, its pretty much instant for them. If you realize that expert players are easily able to carry out an entire game through just saying their moves to eachother (F1-F2, B4-B5 etc.) without even having a chess board, getting your bearings from looking at a mostly empty board is pretty easy

      • I see. Still, a few seconds is not long, and analyzing every move option would take that much, and I really don't think anyone can do that, especially given he has other things in mind. If someone actually does manage to confirm it, then great, but I don't know if it's possible.

  • probably TTG not doing enough research, completely ruining my immersion! GG

    anyways, Black can checkmate white in 2 moves, though it involves White purposely trying to not defend his King.

    Black D2-D1 (promote to queen), White E4->E8 (or somewhere else out of the way). Black H1->F1 (checkmate)

    Of course moving your Queen there sets up an obvious check mate, but maybe this is foreshadowing the future, where Carver will send his second in command off somewhere and leave himself open for attack!

    • "Black can checkmate white in 2 moves, though it involves White purposely trying to not defend his King."

      That's an absurd argument. That's like saying Clementine can defeat Carver in a boxing match, as long as Carver does not throw any punches.

      • Well yeah, maybe Carver is just really stupid :p

        It wasnt an argument, Im just saying its possible within the rules for it to happen. People make blunders all the time in chess, its also possible Carver didnt see the fact that the White Queen was defending his King from that angle and assumed it was open for a checkmate.

  • SHORT VERSION OF MY COMMENT: it's not quite checkmate in 3, but it's far from the dumbest 3-seconds assessment one could make, and black wins either way, so I think the character knew what they were talking about.

    Using this position, with black to play first:

    Actually, yes, white can stall by playing the queen at G2, but then white loses for sure anyway, so it's not that interesting. Strictly speaking, the character should have said "Black gains a clear winning position in 3 moves", but that's a bit too complicated.

    Here's a scenario where white stalls checkmate a few turns, but loses for sure:

    Black pawn d2-d1, (promotes into a second black queen, no need for a rook)

    White queen e4-g2 to prevent checkmate (will be explained later)

    Black queen f1 captures g2

    White king captures back

    The other black queen goes to a1 and the white pawn is dead, white has a queen and three pawns against 2 pawns, black's victory is assured, but it's not checkmate, technically.

    Still, any average player can immediately see that this is a losing option, so they would try to analize something more complicated, as follow:

    Black pawn d2-d1, (promotes into a second black queen)

    White pawn a7-a8 (promotes into a second white queen and adds a layer of protection to g2 and h1 since it's the same diagonal)

    Black queen f1-g1, check the king

    White king forced to move to h3

    Black queen d1 to f1, check again, this time the king can't go anywhere

    White queen forced to g2, no other moves

    Black queen g1-h1, which is checkmate, it took 4 moves

    The white queen at g2 CANNOT take h1 because the queen at f1 would then be putting the king in check, if the g2 queen moved.

    So yes, technically, white can stall checkmate by immediately forfeiting their queen in scenario 1, but any player would just instantly forfeit instead. If we go the more complicated route, it's a clever checkmate in 4 moves. Still one move late, admittedly.

    • Lelouch_Chessmaster: Your second, "more complicated" variation has white throw the game immediately with a8=Q?? on his first reply, it's not a mate in 4. Black d1=Q is best answered by white Qg2. This is still losing, but not in 4 moves. 1) ...d1=Q 2) Qg2, Qxg2+ 3) Kxg2, Qa1/Qa4 and now black wins white's a-pawn on the next move, and will be up a queen and a pawn. Easy win, although not immediate.

      • Um, but that's EXACTLY my first variation! I already admitted white can stall the game longer than 4 turns by giving up their queen!

        You actually just re-stated what I said. Technically, white can always, in this position, stall with Qg2, but it's not much better than surrendering since you're giving up your queen.

        To be 100% accurate, the character should've said "black either checkmates in 4 turns or white surrenders the game by giving up their queen in two turns." That's some heavy, needless writing, though, if you ask me.

        I'd like to know what kind of decent club player would decide to continue the game when behind by a queen and a pawn, with no other pieces and no passed pawns. Everyone I know would just surrender on the spot. Still technically not an immediate win, but hardly worth mentionning.

        To make myself 100% clear, the statement "checkmate in 3" is wrong, and white can stall for a long time, I admitted as much from the start. But it's a pointless stalling with no hope. The more complex variation has white hoping that black missed the pinned queen checkmate, which gives you slightly bigger chances of getting a draw, especially in a fast/blitz game.

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