• I like this theory and I thought I'd add something. Sorry if this was already mentioned but I haven't read the entire thread (it got a little off topic for a while - not pointing any fingers, please leave me out of it - so I skimmed to the end).

    Can't remember exactly which conversation option gets this response but when Bigby and Faith are talking after the fight with Woody, Bigby can say "Maybe I should arrest you". Faith responds with something like "I won't be doing this for much longer, so now's your chance." Is she planning to stop hooking and find other work? Or does this mean that, as your theory suggests, she is behind all of this and will soon be going into hiding? Or does she know she's about to die (that's assuming that she is in fact dead, rather than pulling the puppet strings)? Whatever the case may be, her response is clearly foreshadowing the events that follow.

    I think that if Faith does end up being the killer it would be, and please forgive the masochism here, a delightful punch in the gut. What I mean by that is, I like her character and I felt bad for her when she "died". I also felt bad for Bigby as he clearly liked her, and again for Lawrence when he found out what happened. Telltale did a great job of making me feel emotionally invested in these characters right from the get-go. But ultimately, I'm here for the story and I love a good twist!
    • Nice spot!! I didn't post it before, and it wasn't one of the important things I have yet to post about (see two posts above). It's just as important and just easy to overlook as many of them are, however.

      I think your second notion is right; this is foreshadowing about her knowing more than she lets on.

      I do not think she was just going to up and find another job, at least not a normal one.

      I also don't believe she knew she was going to be killed. If that were the case, she would likely have asked for Bigby's help (she knows he's the sheriff). She also would not have been looking for trouble with a dangerous man (Woodsman).

      Forgive me for my bad habit of correcting others, but I think you mean sadism instead of masochism. Either way, I agree with you. TTG did a great job gripping its audience right away. I too love a good twist, and that point of yours is some good evidence for one!
  • The killer is BigB. At every crime scene there are cigarettes that he smokes. You've seen them at the place where was Faith's head?
  • Why would Faith still wear the donkeyskin? She escaped from her dad and married Lawrence in the Homelands. She would have been relatively safe from her dad considering it looked like he died in the Homelands. The Hans argument has sense if the glamour only disguises the fable, but not reconfigure the fable's weight. I doubt Georgie, Faith, Bloody Mary, even the Tweedles would be able to move a dead troll body. Unless one of them is a troll. Do you think its possible that Lily's been wearing the skin? Could it be that she wearing it made Holly think she were missing, when she was hiding the fact she was with Woody? And that Woody played it off? Then maybe Lily gave it back to Faith because he was use to seeing her in it. And that's way he got so enraged.?
  • Faith stole a photo of Crane and Lilly together presumably playing out Crane's Snow White fetish and having sex. Crane hired Dee and Dum to get the picture back. Faith was at the Woodsman's apartment, so Dee and Dum checked there. It has nothing to do with whether she's alive or dead. Her file doesn't say she was hired for anything. It just says she stole a photo and they are trying to find it. While Crane's file has a price on it. My guess is they noted it in Faith's file because she's affiliated with them, just like they had a note about Cinderella supposedly being on vacation.

    In other words, there's no evidence here that strongly points towards Faith still being alive. The only thing this evidence confirms is that Faith stole a picture from the Tweedles and they were hired to get it back, by Crane. Nothing pointing towards Faith hiring them for anything.
    • Faith had a photo. But it is unknown what the content of that photo actually was, outside of the fact that she had a photo, commented on by the Tweedle's sent to recover it. The theory is based on the assumption blackmail was the motivation. There where several photo's implicating Crane at the crime scene outside of his involvement, Bigby's and Snow White's photos were amongst the photo's found.

      Crane really wouldn't have been so foolish to leave these there implicating himself. Or get angry at the mirror when being found out. Why would the Blackmailer not seek profit. Because when implicating, now they won't be able to get return profit? Unless Blackmail wasn't the only motivation to the full crime, power, as when having Crane removed.

      Why would the Tweedle's be seeking to capture their assumed employer Crane. When the Crooked Man takes him?

      Why would Faith be taking a photo of Lilly and Crane. The happy threesome, but I am wondering what fantasy that is?

      There are many pieces involved containing separate motives from a few different person's involvement, where does this fit into any suspected killer?
      • A picture of Bigby and/or Snow wouldn't be a super big deal to be stolen. It's pretty heavily implied the IMPORTANT photos were stolen.

        Someone else obviously left the photos there, either that or Crane left them there before Lilly was murdered, not expecting anyone to search his apartment, but I think that one is less likely. It's clear Crane REALLY didn't want his secret fetish exposed and once he figured out he was also suspected for a murder, he broke the mirror so he couldn't be tracked and arrested until he proved his innocence. I don't think anyone is blackmailing anyone, other than the Crooked Man threatening people to gibe him moneys if that counts. Like I said, there's nothing at all pointing to them doing a job for Faith. They had other files on people they weren't doing jobs for. They just made a note about her involvement in one of their other jobs.

        They didn't want Crane telling Bigby and Snow anything. Clearly he knew something about the whole situation, hence "I didn't tell them anything!" "Stupid girls and their preposterous schemes" "He knows more than he's letting on" etc etc. Also, he might have been behind on his payments, since he clearly owed some money to the Crooked Man, so they might have been coming to discuss some payment options with him, not necessarily nicely.

        I never said Faith was taking any photos of them, though she might have been, just to help her fellow prostitute Lilly out. The fantasy is between Crane and Lilly and is based off of Snow White's fable.

        A lot of the supposed 'pieces' you brought up were just random assumptions you made that are most likely false. Besides, there's clearly quite a lot of people involved in this little Fabletown conspiracy. From the Tweedles' file cabinet alone we can see quite a few people whom are involved already, and then there's everyone else who's involved with it(nearly everyone shown so far has been involved in some way). So it's kind of hard to name a killer as of right now, but if I were to guess, I'd say Mary is a good bet other than it being too obvious. She has the Woodsman's axe, which has both the sharpness and the magic required to make the cuts found on the severed heads, and she's got the motives(working for the Crooked Man, who's connected to the Puddin n Pie, there was probably some kind of trouble involving Lilly and Faith so she cleaned it up), and she's got the means to kill(batshit crazy).
        • But this photo could have easily been lets imagine. A picture of Snow White for a Glamor tube, a photo of Lilly's murder if it had been in the past. A photo not the photo's which were found in the hotel room 207. Why would Faith have all these other photo's as well. Heck it could have even been a picture of a donkey. Faith might not have even know what the photo was, because she never even had it as in it was never found.

          Crane would not have left the photo's at the room if he went there for murderous intent. He would not have kept the other photo's implicating his stalking within a brothel. Crane was framed by those photo's hence his anger. His fetish about office staff, leading to scandal, crime, murder, he was stealing public funds. These would be his later undoing. A Blackmailer would not leave these photo's there just to implicate Crane unless they are under direct threat themselves. Any Blackmailer would want more money, unless they now can gain power. Blackmail may have been adding to Crane's huge debts. Crane would not be carrying photo's around on him with any information implicating himself.

          Faith would not be in the same room to take any pictures in any threesome. When the client Crane specifically only wants a fantasy about one particular person. That is not to say Faith at that time was that person. The other photo's in the collection were about a year old in the past taken last Christmas.

          Crane knew something about what situation, his debt? Not telling Bigby and Snow White about what, information he had already had told them before arrival? He was taken by the Crooked Man for protection, or to be questioned possibly for underworld justice, as he is the number one suspect from the other investigation conducted by the Tweedle's and Crane has huge debt to the Crooked man which now he will not be able to pay. Crane had been abusing public office stealing money to fund his exploits, the expensive fantasy he had grown accustomed to. This was the source of his debts, although maybe including blackmail. For Crane to start Murdering other earners on the Crooked Mans books this would create problems. The Tweedle's are debt collectors for the Crooked man proven by information in their office amongst many other things.

          If misread wrong I am not naming Crane as the murderer, in any explanations to the above posters comments. Although Crane is still a possibility, but quite unlikely as murder wasn't his fantasy, he wanted the services that fantasy at his cost to continue. Although quite randomly until things got out of hand and Blackmail could turn anybody into a ripper HAHAHA. Crane like so many others who are directly involved in this game's mystery.

          You are throwing out such random assumptions backed by no credible tangible evidence. Please just stop, listen, asking yourself what facts you are speaking.

          You are now assuming Mary to be the killer because she has the Woodsman Axe? Because she is employed by the Crook Man? Another assumption with no real evidence apart from an assumed weapon but with no motive apart from contract. A possibility but no more then anybody else
          • There is absolutely nothing stating that the photo was never found and it is downright stupid to think Crane would hire the costly Crooked Man to help him get back a picture of a donkey. If it's important enough for him to go to that much trouble to get back, it is obviously something he doesn't want getting out to the public. As of right now, the only thing we know of that fits that is his Snow fetish, so it must have something to do with that. "What if it's a picture for a Snow glamour"? He didn't need another at that moment as Lilly had already had one on her. Crane probably reused the same picture, since it would be unreasonable to think Snow had an endless supply of pictures for Crane to steal. In other words, none of your theories here have any evidence backing them up.

            Who is trying to argue he's the murderer? It's pretty damn clear he's not. He does, however, know that his case does not look good, so he tried to cover his tracks until he could prove his innocence. No one blackmailed Crane. They committed a murder and tried to let him take the fall for it, likely planting the pictures there as evidence. He DOES however, have a Snow White fetish and he was indeed stealing funds, just in case you have doubts about that.

            The other photos were from Crane stalking Snow White, in a completely different area. It's perfectly reasonable to think Faith was in the same room simply as a camerawoman, though much more likely Crane just had a camera set to automatically take pictures.

            ....I am seriously starting to doubt your ability to understand human speech. Crane knows something about the WHOLE situation. What ever is going on in Fabletown, involving the Puddin n Pie, the Crooked Man, Crane, Bigby. You know, the whole damn plot of the game? Are you even following the plot at ALL? Half of what you say makes no sense. He clearly knows something about the Crooked Man and some plan of theirs that he didn't tell Bigby and Snow, hence him saying "I didn't tell them anything!" when Mary met with them. Clearly, they aren't interested in any justice, though they likely want the money he owes them and probably want to make sure he keeps his mouth shut about what ever he knows about them. For the last time, there's no blackmail going on. Yes, I know he's not the murderer.

            No shit. That's quite obvious. I have not once said Crane is the murderer, in fact I'm saying it's quite obvious that he's NOT.

   don't speak good English, so you have absolutely no clue what I'm saying. I don't think you have much of a right to be getting into a debate with someone you can't understand. I was wondering why you have been making no sense. Side note, you're the one who has no tangible evidence. I've sited plenty of evidence, all you've cited is assumptions which I have repeatedly proven wrong.

            No, I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying she is currently the lead suspect, because it wouldn't be unreasonable for the murderer to be revealed this late in the game, she has the weapon to do so, the personality to do so and the reason to do so. She might be the murderer, but if she is, she's probably just the Crooked Man's puppet in the matter. As you should be able to see, I have evidence backing my claim up. The Woodsman's axe fits the description of the killer's weapon perfectly, Mary is....evil and seems to enjoy killing, and she works for the Crooked Man who has an attachment to the Puddin n Pie. Like she said, she enjoys her job, she doesn't need any motive other than an order from the Crooked Man. In fact she doesn't need a motive at all to kill someone. She enjoys killing little girls for no reason as a hobby. If you'd like even more evidence, Toad Jr said the person who dumped Lilly's body in the water told someone to stop laughing at them, yet he heard no one laughing, which points to insanity. Mary is batshit crazy.

            "A possibility but no more than anyone else." Most people don't even have a weapon capable of making the cuts scene on the severed heads or any motive at all to kill. Most fables shown so far would also probably have a very hard time bringing themselves to kill in cold blood because they aren't murderers.
            • The photo was never found we have never seen it, have we?. We know the photo wasn't found because we watched the Tweedle search Prince Lawrence Flat recovering nothing. We know the Tweedle didn't find it at Toad's or Woody's flat either. So where is this mysterious photo? Which could have been of absolutely anything at all.

              I don't know where you are getting the assumption Crane had hired the Crooked Man or the Tweedle's? What are you basing this assumption on? Because of the fact that Crane is in debt to the Crooked man, so you must have assumed Crane has hired the Crooked Man and the Tweedle's? I get it, it could possibly be. Crane's tab for the prostitutes glamors, the cost of of keeping a VIP hotel room. Possibly the Crooked Man is Blackmailing Crane, along with all of the other associated business costs of Crane living out his fantasy? Crane has a massive bill to the Crooked Man it so staggering that it is the biggest debt of anybody else on the Crooked man's books. His debt is worth about 10k or more, large enough for Crane to be stealing public money from the Woodlands Office.

              What can't you understand about Crane's fantasy. Specifically! What he wanted from his requested fantasy, his fetish, which he had left explicit instructions of what he wanted to see and wanted to have happen. Not some other prostitute who isn't in a costume. But wait I get it, now you will tell me, this other prostitute was also glamored as Snow White. Now she can be in the same room with a camera taking pictures, and have a strap-on. To buttfuck him later on Blackmail attempts. Yea right! The other photo's in the envelope were from a year ago last Christmas. Faith had a photo, not photo's, otherwise they would have said photo's.

              Yes of course Crane knows something about the Crooked Man. But that is probably not why the Crooked Man is taking Crane in for questioning, or when possibly doing his own underworld justice. The Crooked man has been employing the Tweedle's shown from their business records, as his personal debt collectors, amongst other various associations. You must be so correct, really? That the Tweedle's were according to your assumption, are working for Crane. Because this is why they turned up to grab him. Saving Crane's head from.Bloody Mary's axe according to your assumption of her being the killer. Bloody Mary is the Crooked Man's own personal body guard traveling in his limo.The Crooked man grabbed Crane to protect him, is this what you are saying? It must be because of of his staggering debts, specifically Crane's inability to be able pay those debts back. According to you the Crooked Man was grabbing Crane, so that Crane wouldn't be able to talk about his debts, but we already have this information. Not in the assumption Georgie had phoned the Crooked man to prevent another murder.

              going by your assumption on Blood Mary. After you played the first episode, you must have thought the Tweedle's are the killer? Then Episode 2 you must have thought it was Bluebeard? Now in episode 3, it is Bloody Mary? Gad I just don't know what to say to you? Who will the killer be in the next episode 4? Because the killer is revealed so late in the game according to yourself.

              The rest of what you have said is incoherent insults. These aren't worth me commenting on, because posting your wit and literate prowess, would be like squashing a maggot.
              • If they had found the photo, why would they go around showing people? Anyways, arguing with someone who can barely speak coherent English is getting boring, so I'll just skip to the good part of what you said, the end.

                Yep, I said some insults, but they are far from incoherent unless you can barely speak English. You're one to talk about literate prowess, in English, which you need to brush up on before attempting another argument. But hey, look at the bright side, you win the argument. Since you can barely understand what I say, constantly repeat things I say and misunderstand things I say, the debate probably won't go anywhere, so I'm done.
                • When have "They" the Tweedle's I assume your talking about? Although probably a mule, when specifically your ass? Ever shown anybody a photo. What are you talking about? The photo's not photo in the hotel, the photo in the glamor tube? Your comment is so incoherently stated. The rest of your illiteracy comes from an ego that you are somebody superior, when in fact you are nothing, just a stupid racist.

                  I wager money, your not English. It doesn't take a psychologist to work that out. Statistically the most intolerant are those who are not of any origin themselves, being more prone to correction, or are in studies. If by some ill fated chance that you possibly are, then you are an incredibly dumb idiot, lacking in basic mannerism and culture. Something which we British pride ourselves upon. Grow up and learn something. Stop basing your arguments on assumptions, using facts and communicate clearly.
                  • You can barely even understand English. I said they had no reason to show anyone a photo, I never said they showed anyone. I'm saying just because we didn't see it doesn't mean they didn't find it. In fact it probably means they DID find it since BIGBY didn't find it. Do you comprehend that? I am far from a racist, but you shouldn't attempt a debate with someone when you don't even speak their language well enough to understand what they're saying. You have absolutely NO clue what I'm saying half the time. That's not my fault, and it doesn't make me racist for pointing out your lack of ability to properly understand English.

                    Hah, I'm American, and far from a kid. I bet you're going to try to use some American stereotype as leverage now. My point still stands, you can barely speak English. Half of what you say is difficult to understand and you have absolutely NO clue what I say the majority of the time. That's not my fault, nor does it make me dumb. YOU'RE the one basing your arguments on assumptions. I have used nearly solely facts while you have used assumptions that you have tried to play off as facts, then when I prove you wrong, you can't even understand what I'm saying to realize you've been proven wrong. I use facts, you don't understand what I'm saying, so I give up on trying to have a civil conversation.

                    What is the use in trying to talk to you if you don't even understand most of what I am saying?
  • Don't know if this was mentioned already but did anyone else noticed how faith left hand was empty when we got to woody's apartment but after the fight escalates to outside while faith is nowhere to be seen. Until she appears to help finish the fight, of course, her left hand now has a ring on her middle finger with her family's insignia. Was here ring in woody's apartment and while we were busy fighting she retrieved her ring? Any ideas? (If this was already mentioned thn just disregard it)
    • Bad artwork like Grant's arm regrowing for the funeral fight. She always had her ring on. Maybe though she takes it off when she is at work the whole Ex husband thing got pay the bills... HAHAHA
      • I really don't think so I've played the episode a couple times and it looks like they purposely zoom in on her hand or put it in the shot so tht u can notice. Also I have several pictures but don't no how to put them up. I think pics r disabled for now or something
        • The ring identifies Ass girl from the fables entry. The ring was crucial at some point in their prior conversation, she should be seen wearing it. Specifically in being seen when she was smoking a cigarette. Although it is of quite mote importance.That whether or not during the big fight with Woody, you actually saw this ring on Faith. Except for when later seeing it when she was questioned about the fight, and sympathized with her, that you could actually identify this ring .

          Bad artwork or assuming married people will do when they remove their rings for sexual encounters.HAHA. Although working girls often have so many more, when having that fist full of gaudy trinkets. Who cares about what any band means or doesn't mean, for any one night stand. Marriage is so overrated meaning nothing but a piece of toilet paper you can wipe each others asses with. HAHA.
  • crooked man is boss and bloody mary is assisstant
  • I don't see why the boss of dee and dum would go for all that trouble for a photo. unless for these reasons

    1: there something in the photo that is important.
    2: he needs it for a glamour - blackmail someone?

    And we don't know why Faith took it in the first place. she might have took more then one thing. when we meet her she mentions that she has to drop something off and that she thinks that she won't have to work for Georgie for much longer. So the item was worth something? a photo? Mmm don't think so, unless she was going to blackmail someone.
    • "...unless she was going to blackmail someone." She was. Crane. And she did.
      • Carne never glamour himself to like Faith. I was talking about Faith
        • Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm saying Faith did take the photo from Crane because of your two reasons. It was important (it was incriminating to Crane), and it was to blackmail someone. That someone was Crane.
          • Crane is a scumbag, but he is really scared, he isn't the killer. Dum and Dee aren't working for him. they are working for Crocked man. he was the one who send them to look for the photo.
            • There is no proof Faith had taken the photo. There is a lack of proof however. That Faith had a photo in her possession. Because a photo was never recovered, when under the assumption Faith had a photo. Because the supposed photo was searched for by Muscle. When they searched where she was seen to be.

              If Faith had a photo? Blackmail would have been the assumed obvious intent. However why would Faith just later incriminate with that supposed photograph, not those later photo's found. Instead of seeking fortune from any blackmailed gains, because any cash cow would soon disappear upon later implications?

              There are other factors to also be considered. I find it quite hypothetical to assume. When Faith the pauper, whore, was the kind of mastermind behind any supposed scheme's. The scheme's in play show evidence of a particular type of killer's trends. Stalking and having other evidence, these causing a shuffle of power, unrest, and revenge.

              That is not to say that a whore cannot be, the not so innocent victim, but when scheme's in play are of a far more diabolical nature. Causing an imbalance to the entire fable community structures showing other motivation, it is quite hard to imagine the work of a pauper whore. Yes supposedly that whore may have sought beginning gains, then erupting into other events, but that is not nearly the entire story here.
  • #Comment4

    Hey all, I have some updates including supporting evidence of my theory, some speculations (weaker than a theory), and key information. I am going to divide this post into 2-4 posts, as I’ve learned nobody wants to read one long one. A quick recap of my theory: 1. FAITH WAS LOOKING FOR THE STOLEN PHOTO FROM CRANE. 2. FAITH IS ALIVE. 3. FAITH (WITH VIVIAN’S HELP) MURDERED LILY. Now I am still confident about the first two, but I am hedging my bets on the third. I also am curious, or have changed my mind on minor (comparatively) things.

    Let me reiterate that this is just a theory. We are only 60% through the story; anyone who says they are 100% sure about something non-trivial should not be taken seriously. TTG has done an incredible job with hiding clues/information, as well as keeping things open-ended enough so that a different possibility may end up happening. I have a lot to post, so I will post these one by one, and I will see how far I get.

    Many of you have rightly asked, “Well if Faith is alive, then whose head is that?” It’s Amber’s. It may also be Heather's (see next post -- likely 5/12/14). “Who are Amber and Heather?” Well Amber is another one of the girls at P’n’P. I think every girl but Faith, Lily, and Nerissa, are essentially disposable. By the way, the other girls are: Brandy, Heather, Amber, and Tara. These names are all listed off in Mark Wahlberg’s character guessing scene from Ted (2010). Now, we must look at (information most looked over) when this all happened. So far: Sunday, June 29 to Tuesday, July 1, 1980. How do I know? Well, we know it starts in June; if you listen to the very first scene (before you even get to control Bigby). The radio is talking about how it was a record high for June. Then, take a look at the pictures below. One is of a calendar in the girls’ office. The second is a newspaper article. I know it is 1980, because that is the only year from 1980-1985 in which June 29 falls on a Sunday.

    Okay, now look at the first picture. Amber wants somebody to cover for her 7/16. It looks like the note has been stuck to the July calendar, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t stuck to June’s. Also, whoever does the Calendar isn’t doing a good job updating it, because both Faith and Lily are supposedly dead, but their names still appear. Now look at picture two. It shows Brannigan interviewed Bigby early on Tuesday morning (July 1), which was the morning after Lily was killed (night of June 30/early morning of July 1).

    I speculate that Faith had made prior arrangements to switch with Amber, after she had made arrangements to cover for Lily – which I will get to shortly. Faith tells Amber, “Sure, I can cover for you, and you don’t even have to work the full night on Sunday. But this guy really likes me, so you’ll need to be glamoured to look just like I do.” Faith went to Woody’s on Sunday, went back and returned her money/makeup, after which Amber as Faith took over and met whoever killed “faith”. The glamour eventually wears off (which is why Swineheart won’t let anyone see the head or body, if he has it).

    Now, this begs the question, “why would Lily want/need to switch with Faith?” We cannot know this for sure; however, I believe that she was called in by CM and/or Georgie because her relationship with Woody had been discovered. Why is that a problem? Well, Lily had been giving Woody IOUs/freebees for a while. No profit –> no business –> hooker in trouble. So, I posit that Lily had been scheduled to work on Sunday, June 29, and she got Faith to cover for her. Well we don’t know that Lily HADN’t been scheduled for the next day (Monday, June 30), but I posit that even if she hadn’t, Faith’s “death” would compel Georgie to say, “well, you’ve got to work Monday now because the woman you switched with died last night; it’s time to pay your dues”.

    There is still a lot more to come. One of the *many* important things is this: WOODY AND GREN KNOW HOW LILY DIED.
  • #Comment5

    The very first thread I made, I foolishly accused Dr. Swineheart of pretty much everything. I was rightly shot down, and I now see that what’s going on has to be opposite to that. The bad guys can’t be just one person, and the people responsible probably aren’t in the comics. Making that tenuous assumption (unless there is a sequel), we find ourselves looking at a lot of characters not just for culpability, but at least for being complicit. Thus, most of the non-canon characters probably end up being killed/thrown down the well, or sent to the farm.

    Now, as for how Woody and Gren know how Lily met her end. If you go the the trip Trap in episode 3, listen to their dialogue before opening the door. The picture below is Gren saying, “We [Gren and Woody] know what happened [to Lily]. Woody wants to explain it to Holly, but Gren tells him, “Why would she want to hear that?”

    Further, if you tell Nerissa that 207 was Crane’s room, she confirms. However, if you tell her Lily was murdered that night in 207, she looks away and says, “Oh…”. I am thinking that Faith set up Lily to be killed, but she set it up in a way that it may have been an accident (for the killer, not for faith). We know Crane was there the day of the murder. Besides Nerissa’s testimony that it was Crane’s room, we also know that he was actually watching BEAUTY, not Bigby, when he sees that he has been framed. See below.

    How would he know to watch Beauty if he was not there that day (Monday, June 30)? Furthermore, when Crane bales Bigby out with the memory wipe spell, how would he know (unless he was there) that there was anything that the NYPD needed to forget? He comes fully equipped with an expensive spell (he doesn’t really have the money), and bales out Bigby, whom he doesn’t really like.

    Crane certainly is not the murderer, but he was there that day (probably earlier in the day, as he schedules his “massage” early). I had said that Crane’s regular girl was probably Faith. I do not think so anymore. If you look at the Calendar, you can see that every Monday, there was a scheduled appointment with Heather at 10 PM. This is the case for Heather being the used as Faith’s corpse (though I still think it is Amber). In fact, I am not so sure that Faith was even a prostitute at all (at least she was not at the Open Arms). Beauty tells Bigby that she has never heard the name Faith, but she rattles off Lily, Amber, Heather, and Tara pretty easily. See below 2:30 – 4:40.

    There is another hole in the plot here. Holly claims to know very little about her sister. She demands that she get the body, but Crane throws Lily down the well before Holly can get to her. So who is being burned at the funeral? Nobody is. Supposedly some “old world shit will fuck your soul up”, according to Holly, if you do not burn a family member’s body, but nothing happens to her. Also, how does Holly even get to Lily’s things (the Brooch, the picture, her address book, her White-Dove glamour tube?) We don’t see any of that in the evidence box (minus the brooch) when you examine Lily’s body (the glamour tube is that of the white-deer – Greenleaf’s signature). Holly also lets something out that intrigues me. When Snow gives her the brooch, Holly says it was from a DWARVES’COPPER MINE. If you look at the book of fables entry from Lily’s Brooch, it clearly states it is made of Iron that she got after devouring a human. Jack also lets it slip (though it could just be Jack being stupid) that Holly’s sister has been missing for “what? A few days now?” (not weeks, as is suggested otherwise). I am thinking that Holly may know more about her sister than she lets on.

    As far as the spell and the ribbons go: I will say the ribbons are most likely for a decapitation spell, or they serve some other purpose. They do not prevent the girls from speaking. That is another spell (not necessarily by a different person, but I think it is). Evidence for this (also evidence for Faith being alive): If you ask the mirror to show you Faith (she’s been “dead”), he says, “Through powerful magic her whereabouts concealed. Unfortuneately for you, these lips are sealed. These lips are sealed. It is not my choice of Phrasing, Bigby; it’s simply the way it has to be”. The mirror wears no ribbon. If you ask the mirror about Lily, he says that he cannot show her whereabouts, but doesn’t say, “these lips are sealed”. This is after she is dead, but before she is thrown down the well by Crane. I will post my theory on who is casting the silence spell and why in another post.

    There are also more questions in the story. There are a series of very “convenient” appearances by several characters, without which, Bigby would not really know where to go. I will post about those in the next post, which will be more speculative than this one or the previous.
  • My next post will have to do with trolls, and Scandinavian mythology, from which I believe many side-characters are based. Online trolls, like their Northern-European counterparts, have an insatiable appetite. I humbly request of everyone here please, please, do not feed trolls. This includes replying to a personal attack (no matter how stupid, incoherent, or incorrect it may be). It does nothing to further discussion, and also: you WON'T win. There is only one way to beat an online troll in an argument: do not reply back. You've already won.
    • Wow 3 post in a row. Have you nominated yourself for that troll of the year award? I'm bad I must be feeding it. Although I think he does this job all by himself. He is trying so hard to win that coveted trophy. How do you beat a troll? You give them a ribbon, you know a boobie trapped ribbon. According to his theory. The theory he is trying so hard to convince himself of.

      His theory has changed, been proven wrong, and will undoubtedly change next episode. Although right now is nothing more then a convoluted mess of happenstance assumption, based entirely on whim, with little to no, hard evidence established within fact. After suffering pages and pages of his lack of fact. What are we left with? A troll.

      1) Why would Faith leave her own ring, her own heirloom, in her own head attached to a ribbon? Leading any investigation right back to her? To prove that she is already dead. We already have a proven dead person. She can be verified from her meeting with Bigby prior to her decapitation, without her using her ring as proof.

      2) If any glamors wear off, according to your theory to somehow prove point 1? This will prove that Faith is still alive, discrediting your theory altogether. Because this won't be the work of a planned killer, but a victim. In any case, how does a voodoo doll, with a picture and DNA wear off?

      3) What photo, a photo that was never found, a wild goose chase, a red herring? If blackmail was any motivation here, why would Faith later implicate? Because Faith probably never had the photo, not photo's, in her possession at her time of death, or that assumed photo got her killed. When Faith is possibly not even the killer.

      4) If Faith is the killer of herself, why would she leave her own head on the doorstep, and then leave another whores. What motivation apart from the angry serial Hooker, could she possibly have? Blackmail is no longer the motive.

      I really don't want to comment, on supposed plot holes of imagination's making, speech impediments of various characters, according to hypothetical assumption. Lacking credible hard evidence, often ignored, turned into some elaborate kind of conjuration of improbability. Some of the characters mentioned are often clearly worried, distressed, when they're providing separate information altogether. Worn ribbons that decapitate, like light sabres. It goes on and on for pages.
      • I don't even post on this forum. This will literally be my first post and likely my last. I don't even play this game - I literally just went to youtube and watched it like a movie. Having thoroughly enjoyed watching it I came here to see what other people thought about it and decided to read a couple of threads. I bumped into this one, where I was entertained by how minds could come together to form predictions that actually make sense. . . I was enjoying the read, and even laughed and shook my head as I read some of your nonsense where you began to harass everyone in the thread.

        It is nice to see them being nice to you, since they actually have a common presence here and would not like to be banned or anything of the like - but me, I have no such concerns. While they are attempting to be understanding of your 'condition', I do not sympathize for you at all. It is one thing to have a disorder, etc. Fine. It is another thing when you go above and beyond and blatantly start trolling people seeking attention. Your posts are ALL 100% aggressive - and if I knew how to report you on here I would (I'm going to figure out by the way). The first one, although childish, was a 'little' amusing; I must admit I chuckled at the frustration people were experiencing trying to be reasonable with a complete idiot.

        But then you got out of hand. You have reached a new level of troll when people who aren't even members of this forum make an account just to fight for you to get banned. I do not think threads that involve critical thinking are really the place for you, and I strongly believe you need to find some like minded people where you can troll one another and throw bones back and forth in the middle of your circular argument.

        That being said, thumbs down for you; I reiterate, I'm going to find out how to report you. Having modded many forums, people like you are very unwelcome - and it's always good to mulch the yard from time to time so that richer things can flourish.

        It'd be a pleasure to see you gone.



        P.S. I'm not coming back.
        • Thank you! Nobody reads the content of this thread now that it is muddled up so badly. No need to respond. Your, "you're welcome" is well implied.
          • I apologize for prolonging that idiotic argument here in your thread. Troll was right about one thing, circular arguments take two people and I take my share of responsibility for that newest couple of posts above. I promise you that if I ever post in this thread again it will be strictly about the theories. Though I first have to catch up with what's been said lately.

            And try to keep this thread going, you had some very interesting observations here.
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